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Hey, folks.

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Pardon? Starting a minute late.

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Oh,

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that was me. Almost spilling my nice big glass of water across my entire desk.

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Wouldn't that have been a great distracting way

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to start stream when I'm already running late.

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Oh, boy,

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give me one second. It's only a splash. But if I get it

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off of shit,

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here we go.

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All right.

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Hello. Hello?

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Yeah, it was very,

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I don't know if that came through on the mic, but you might have heard the whole,

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like pint glass of water wobbling on the surface of the wooden desk.

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I, uh,

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was moving something out of the way and caught it and it,

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it thought about tipping over

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and

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just barely didn't, it probably would have gone straight into the keyboard too.

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Oh,

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boy.

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Luckily,

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you know,

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even that wouldn't be the end of the

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world because there are several spare keyboards around.

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I got into, um,

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mechanical keyboards. Gosh, I don't know,

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seven years ago. So I've soldered a few.

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I'm not sure there's one within arm's reach that uses Cordy though.

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Yeah,

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it's been a couple of years but I was using the

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Norman layout

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and it's lovely. But

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I never did get the, uh,

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it,

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the speed back.

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So

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let's not allow that

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guess I missed closing something there.

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I don't know if the, uh,

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five seconds of rock came through there.

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All that aside.

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Nice to see you for C Django Mandalorian and then for everybody else.

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This is the lobster's office hours stream where

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twice a week I

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take any kind of questions that folks have about the site, the community,

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the code base.

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And

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when folks don't have stuff, I work on the site usually that's code.

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But my plan for the day

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absent questions is more

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writing,

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which is why this stream started 20 minutes late. There was the

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big meta topic last week around

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the brave browser. I just left a comment that

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is about that and

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I'm just not a particularly fast writer, especially when I'm trying to

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be clear about contentious stuff.

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So I was working on that comment and then working and

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working and working and I realized it was just gonna be

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better to pause the stream than wait another

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couple of hours

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cause it's already been a couple of days of

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reflecting on it.

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So that's about that.

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How are folks doing?

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I see a lot of familiar names in the um

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the user list. Thanks for coming back.

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Although I understand it's rude in twitch to call individuals out.

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So I won't,

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my, my general plan was to talk about story merging,

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which has come up on the stream a couple of times.

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I guess that's part of why it's in my head

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is

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maybe three streams ago. We talked a little about the U I of story merging, which is

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this item here.

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But I've got a couple of um

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couple of reasons I think it's worth spending some more time on

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story merging.

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Uh

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Yeah, we can just here. I can find the link real fast.

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It's whatever my last comment was, which the Threads page should have.

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Some were down here,

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many big threats. It's this one I'm talking about. So let me grab this link.

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Oh, yeah. What is this? Like 600 words?

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Yeah, I learned in college writing papers

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that I could write

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a good paper at a rate. Almost exactly one page per hour.

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So

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if I had a five page paper to write,

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I could just block off five hours and I would write it and it was always,

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always that amount of time and I would get really good grades on papers. Uh,

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that was pretty consistent but then just

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I am such a slow writer

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when I'm going for quality. Uh,

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obviously silly comments. I can bang out pretty fast. But having worked with

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professional journalists, I mean,

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I was a professional journalist at the Washington Post but like

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I did,

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I built sites that went along with news

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stories rather than directly writing articles myself.

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And,

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yeah, I guess the other thing I did that was journalism was, I built the, uh,

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the Tech Crunch job board and did some other stuff in the early days of Tech Crunch.

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I had a contract with the New York Times that didn't work out

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anyways. Uh, I gotta get in gear. I'm, I'm

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distracting. Um,

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but I was always impressed by

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the,

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the pros journalists will call them who could just bang out stories so fast

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because I would look at the stuff they would write and I'd be like, oh,

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that would take me

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two hours to write and they'd write it in literally 15 minutes.

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Professional writers. Pretty cool.

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Ah, hey Jay Ivan,

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that's part Biss Sandra. Welcome back, folks. Nice to see so many familiar faces.

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I didn't actually expect that for lobsters hours that there would be,

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you know, a nice little

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core group that returns, but that's been super pleasant actually.

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So

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absent

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meta stuff. The other meta stuff is story merging.

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I had talked a little, oh,

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because it's such a usual stream fixture.

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I should maybe mention there's been no movement

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on any whole request since the last stream.

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So I'm just not even gonna go there.

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The

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this bug that we talked about on stream a

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little while ago and I'll throw the link and chat

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was kind of funny because

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let's, let's actually have that open on a tab for an example of story emerging

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because not that guy.

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Which one was it?

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Yes.

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Not this thread.

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Didn't I put it in my notes.

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Yes.

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So this comment

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is where I did a big write up of story merging a while ago.

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And

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let's get rid of that highlighting for contrast, the,

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the funny bit that popped out at me was saying, oh,

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if the saving feature doesn't work properly on merge stories,

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that's a bug and please file it.

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And if saving is broken prob hiding probably is as well. So I wrote that

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September of 2019

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and then

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August. So almost exactly five years later, we had this bug reported that.

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Oh yeah, if you hide a story, it doesn't actually hide all the comments on the story.

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So the

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uh the gist of

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the way story merging works is it's kind of a bug factory.

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So here's a really small example of merging stories where

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there was an official blog post and then also someone submitted.

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Um I think

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Keygen created this fair source thing. These were the

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two things.

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So they announced that they were becoming fair source

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and then they created this fair source group.

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So

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since they were the

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same topic from the same company, I merged the two stories together.

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And so you can kind of see an example of,

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well, there's two headlines

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and then

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this text is a little funny

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and then if we dig down

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somewhere in the ah

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yeah.

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So like here's some comments from the merged Story,

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they get this icon on the front and they have the title of the story on the right.

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And if you're just skimming along it, especially for the top level comments.

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So like this one,

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a consistent thing that comes up is basically people miss this U I,

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they don't notice this title.

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And so

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actually this is a great example because this person says, 02 years,

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so they are responding to something that is in the article.

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But if you're just browsing this story,

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it's not super clear which of the two links they're responding to

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people just

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they missed this part of it.

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And this U I

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is not super useful inside of a story

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because

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so we reuse this template for comments and

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every place that we print comments, we use this template.

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So this links to the story, but on a merged story, this just kind of like

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links to the page and it tells you it's merged,

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but it's not clear. Oh If you want to understand

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why this person is saying two years, you have to click the second link, not the first.

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So the way

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merging is implemented a

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note before you forget.

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Oh,

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they're waiting for a coming to the pull request.

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That's that's worth interrupting for

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cause otherwise, I was just gonna go into um

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story emerging for pretty much the whole time. So,

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all right. So there was this, I reviewed it.

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Oh That's great.

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How, how long was that sitting? That I missed it?

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Two weeks? Oh man,

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I must have clicked in and accidentally cleared that little

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blue line that notes that it's new and then I just never looked back.

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Uh It's indenting a good idea.

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Honestly, people miss the indented

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message for

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editing titles.

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Let's find that code to refer to it.

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We use that before. Aren't that? So that's over in

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location. Js has the

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what is it called? Delimiter?

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No

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separator.

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Yeah, here we go.

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The uh check story title has a really simple bit of code

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that just says

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if you see one of these punctuations,

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the dash,

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the colon

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and then like the N dash, the M dash

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A pipe A dot A different dot or the word by.

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We're probably seeing a title where someone

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uh

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that was automatically fetched from the page and it's something like

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cool things in Python pipe blog by Alice Smith.

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And we don't include the blog by Alice Smith

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on the end of titles. It's just a style issue.

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And

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so there's this really simple title reminder that says,

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hey, look, if we have one of those, just

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that is the best time

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to tell people

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this, which is what is that over in the story form.

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Yeah,

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it says

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please remove extraneous com components from titles such as

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the name of the site blog section and author.

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This is pretty much lifted from the story guidelines,

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but those appear below the story

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and they don't show up

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all of the time. Usually the the guidelines are collapsed.

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So it's

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deliberately echoing that text.

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How does that answer?

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See

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Yah Warman is kind of

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implicitly asking what the message should be here.

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So speaking of slow writing.

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Yeah. So

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the thing that I wanna see out of this message is

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that it is clear to the submitter

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that we just replaced the thing they pasted

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because so

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uh their example here even is

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kind of similar like it's a short Euro, but it's

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very often the

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the

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last part of the URL that has changed.

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So here it's just a trailing slash, but sometimes it's a

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dot html or a dot PHP or a something else

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way out at the end of the URL.

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And when I say way out at the end, I mean, some URL s are so long, it's

266
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off to the side in the box

267
00:18:59.729 --> 00:19:00.540
and

268
00:19:00.869 --> 00:19:06.430
when people are tabbing along in this form, the next field title is right below.

269
00:19:06.449 --> 00:19:09.979
And as soon as they out focus this title typically within,

270
00:19:10.930 --> 00:19:13.310
I mean, it it depends on how fast the

271
00:19:14.209 --> 00:19:19.920
we can round trip to the target server, but typically in like 50 or 100 milliseconds,

272
00:19:19.930 --> 00:19:21.329
we prefill the title.

273
00:19:21.540 --> 00:19:22.500
So people's

274
00:19:22.949 --> 00:19:24.229
eyes tend to

275
00:19:24.430 --> 00:19:28.030
like just snap down to that next line of the form.

276
00:19:28.130 --> 00:19:32.260
And so they're going to be looking away specifically from the URL

277
00:19:32.589 --> 00:19:33.310
and

278
00:19:34.650 --> 00:19:38.290
when the human eye moves from one place to another,

279
00:19:38.300 --> 00:19:42.229
unless it's tracking a moving object, it moves in what's called A CCA.

280
00:19:45.060 --> 00:19:47.170
That's actually pretty cool topic if you don't know it.

281
00:19:56.910 --> 00:19:57.650
So

282
00:19:58.709 --> 00:19:59.670
the eye

283
00:20:00.880 --> 00:20:02.900
basically snaps around.

284
00:20:04.770 --> 00:20:06.579
Yeah. So it's saying what I was saying of

285
00:20:07.189 --> 00:20:10.540
if it's following something that's moving smoothly, the eyes move smoothly,

286
00:20:10.550 --> 00:20:15.420
but otherwise the eyes do a quick simultaneous movement of both eyes.

287
00:20:16.560 --> 00:20:19.540
So when people are looking from the URL,

288
00:20:19.550 --> 00:20:22.500
they just pasted and then they snap down to the movement.

289
00:20:22.750 --> 00:20:24.790
I'm not gonna read the whole Wikipedia page to you.

290
00:20:24.800 --> 00:20:27.430
But the useful thing to know there is

291
00:20:27.979 --> 00:20:31.270
people are functionally blind when they are Cicada

292
00:20:32.790 --> 00:20:35.010
and you can see this yourself.

293
00:20:35.689 --> 00:20:36.569
So

294
00:20:40.520 --> 00:20:41.540
is there a way of

295
00:20:44.310 --> 00:20:46.780
I'm never gonna have a diagram. Let's make a terrible diagram.

296
00:20:48.660 --> 00:20:51.239
This is one of those, this is a little bit like that. Um

297
00:20:54.010 --> 00:20:56.959
What was it called? Uh the card test

298
00:20:57.650 --> 00:21:00.540
that I did. That's an example on screen a month or two ago

299
00:21:01.119 --> 00:21:01.839
of,

300
00:21:02.219 --> 00:21:05.920
can you recognize which of these cards to flip over in a logic test?

301
00:21:09.930 --> 00:21:12.709
Uh B Sandro? I think you're thinking of um

302
00:21:13.569 --> 00:21:15.020
like Pariah Dola

303
00:21:15.439 --> 00:21:16.250
or

304
00:21:17.550 --> 00:21:21.380
which is when people see faces in things or then there's another one,

305
00:21:21.390 --> 00:21:22.209
I'm not remembering

306
00:21:23.130 --> 00:21:23.750
um

307
00:21:24.670 --> 00:21:26.130
less tracking. Um

308
00:21:59.239 --> 00:22:04.380
I'm not sure I understand what you're asking well enough to say if it's the same thing

309
00:22:04.689 --> 00:22:05.489
because,

310
00:22:06.430 --> 00:22:09.170
you know, I read about this stuff because I think it's neat.

311
00:22:09.180 --> 00:22:12.209
I'm not any kind of expert on the brain or

312
00:22:13.260 --> 00:22:14.199
the visual thing.

313
00:22:17.000 --> 00:22:18.260
So as an example

314
00:22:21.420 --> 00:22:23.709
let's see. Let's make some art, ask you art about it.

315
00:22:28.800 --> 00:22:29.530
All right.

316
00:22:30.699 --> 00:22:31.150
So

317
00:22:33.989 --> 00:22:35.869
yeah. OK. So this is a

318
00:22:36.619 --> 00:22:38.199
ask your art version,

319
00:22:38.489 --> 00:22:40.000
your eyes can't see anything on the move

320
00:22:40.010 --> 00:22:42.239
but your brain can't interrupt the video stream.

321
00:22:42.349 --> 00:22:43.140
You focus on the

322
00:22:48.910 --> 00:22:52.859
that could totally be how it works. But I don't know.

323
00:22:53.900 --> 00:22:56.329
My understanding has been that

324
00:22:57.640 --> 00:23:01.020
when you are Cicada, you generally can't see things

325
00:23:03.000 --> 00:23:07.140
and your brain is just used to it and covers the gap like you

326
00:23:07.150 --> 00:23:09.579
don't notice that you have a blind spot in the middle of your vision.

327
00:23:12.000 --> 00:23:14.150
Oh Yeah, that one about the,

328
00:23:14.369 --> 00:23:17.199
when you first look at a clock, it feels long. Yeah,

329
00:23:17.640 --> 00:23:18.699
I know that one. But

330
00:23:25.670 --> 00:23:27.020
so here's ask the art,

331
00:23:28.680 --> 00:23:29.739
this is you

332
00:23:30.180 --> 00:23:31.060
top down.

333
00:23:32.329 --> 00:23:36.550
So assuming you are not where somewhere someone is gonna give you

334
00:23:36.689 --> 00:23:37.819
weird looks

335
00:23:39.819 --> 00:23:41.839
if you put your arms out

336
00:23:42.079 --> 00:23:43.479
to the left and right.

337
00:23:44.349 --> 00:23:45.060
So uh

338
00:23:46.010 --> 00:23:47.239
that's actually here we go.

339
00:23:55.400 --> 00:23:56.119
Let's get

340
00:23:56.290 --> 00:23:56.300
a

341
00:23:57.510 --> 00:23:58.219
the pipe

342
00:24:00.010 --> 00:24:00.949
and a carrot.

343
00:24:02.569 --> 00:24:07.099
So I want you to always face straight ahead.

344
00:24:07.109 --> 00:24:10.130
Your chin should be pointed directly ahead,

345
00:24:11.020 --> 00:24:12.680
say towards your monitor.

346
00:24:13.270 --> 00:24:17.560
And then if you lift up your left and right arms and you hold them out

347
00:24:18.020 --> 00:24:21.359
and keeping your chin pointed perfectly straightforward,

348
00:24:22.359 --> 00:24:27.420
move your eyes all the way to the left and put your left hand with one finger up.

349
00:24:28.349 --> 00:24:31.449
You can choose your finger, put your hand with one finger up.

350
00:24:31.459 --> 00:24:34.930
So you just see it with your eyes. All the way to the left

351
00:24:35.630 --> 00:24:36.369
and then

352
00:24:36.689 --> 00:24:40.250
put your right hand, keeping your chin forward, do the same thing.

353
00:24:40.260 --> 00:24:42.449
So if you look all the way to your right,

354
00:24:42.459 --> 00:24:44.930
you can just see one finger up on your right hand

355
00:24:45.489 --> 00:24:47.050
without moving your head,

356
00:24:47.729 --> 00:24:49.449
look at your right finger

357
00:24:50.209 --> 00:24:52.319
and then snap your eyes to your left finger.

358
00:24:53.000 --> 00:24:57.180
It is the longest possible CCA you can do all the way from left to right

359
00:24:57.750 --> 00:25:00.810
and it is long enough and slow enough

360
00:25:02.650 --> 00:25:04.380
that you may see

361
00:25:05.910 --> 00:25:08.609
sort of a bit of blackness in the middle and it's not

362
00:25:08.619 --> 00:25:12.609
really blackness because your inner eye is not a movie camera,

363
00:25:13.859 --> 00:25:16.140
but you may realize that in the middle

364
00:25:16.719 --> 00:25:18.689
when you're doing this exceptionally long

365
00:25:18.839 --> 00:25:19.270
CCA,

366
00:25:20.060 --> 00:25:23.729
there's kind of a feeling of blankness, you just don't

367
00:25:24.510 --> 00:25:26.650
see what's in front of you,

368
00:25:26.699 --> 00:25:30.930
which is what you would naively expect if your eyes were tracking from left to right.

369
00:25:31.640 --> 00:25:35.239
And so if something changes in front of you

370
00:25:35.359 --> 00:25:36.060
in that,

371
00:25:37.229 --> 00:25:39.810
I don't know what that's gonna take. I think the longest

372
00:25:39.939 --> 00:25:42.670
CCAS are around 100 milliseconds.

373
00:25:43.479 --> 00:25:46.780
So 1/10 of a second, if something changes right in front of you,

374
00:25:46.790 --> 00:25:47.810
you're not gonna see it.

375
00:25:48.369 --> 00:25:50.579
And there is a smaller version of this

376
00:25:51.400 --> 00:25:53.619
bringing it back to the form where

377
00:25:54.579 --> 00:25:58.760
something appears down here and your vision snaps from the URL down.

378
00:25:58.959 --> 00:26:01.719
And if the URL changes at the same time,

379
00:26:02.189 --> 00:26:05.000
you literally cannot see the change.

380
00:26:08.500 --> 00:26:14.719
So that's why I'm especially careful around forms that change things for people

381
00:26:15.050 --> 00:26:15.760
because

382
00:26:17.880 --> 00:26:20.989
naively, it feels like they're looking straight at it.

383
00:26:23.239 --> 00:26:26.579
But if they are in the process of moving to the next field

384
00:26:26.660 --> 00:26:30.819
or there is an animation happening somewhere else that their attention snaps to,

385
00:26:31.130 --> 00:26:32.900
they are blind to the change.

386
00:26:34.369 --> 00:26:36.589
So that is the very long way of saying I

387
00:26:36.599 --> 00:26:39.589
would like this message to be clear about what happened.

388
00:26:39.890 --> 00:26:40.430
And

389
00:26:42.810 --> 00:26:43.760
so let's say

390
00:27:00.819 --> 00:27:02.959
I would like to say canonical, but

391
00:27:04.130 --> 00:27:05.819
it's jargon that people won't know.

392
00:27:14.819 --> 00:27:17.280
So I'm trying to start with the noun of the

393
00:27:17.290 --> 00:27:20.130
thing you are caring about and we're just thinking about.

394
00:27:58.060 --> 00:27:59.160
Is there a good?

395
00:28:04.270 --> 00:28:06.880
See, I'm just hoping MDN has a page for it.

396
00:28:13.510 --> 00:28:14.189
Is there

397
00:28:14.329 --> 00:28:14.339
a

398
00:28:18.229 --> 00:28:21.069
ah it's kind of a shame this talks about search engines.

399
00:28:21.079 --> 00:28:23.489
That's a little distracting and is not why we use it.

400
00:28:24.300 --> 00:28:25.530
We use it because

401
00:28:27.030 --> 00:28:29.449
uh we use it for a similar reason,

402
00:28:29.459 --> 00:28:31.689
which is there are often many URL S and

403
00:28:31.699 --> 00:28:34.209
we want to avoid getting duplicate URL s submitted.

404
00:28:39.339 --> 00:28:39.750
That is

405
00:28:40.579 --> 00:28:42.170
probably enough.

406
00:28:42.500 --> 00:28:42.939
All right,

407
00:28:51.849 --> 00:28:53.219
let's see if that's reasonable

408
00:28:59.000 --> 00:28:59.160
to will

409
00:28:59.339 --> 00:28:59.390
be

410
00:28:59.719 --> 00:29:00.719
given by the server.

411
00:29:05.489 --> 00:29:06.310
I'd like

412
00:29:07.650 --> 00:29:09.189
the message to start

413
00:29:10.459 --> 00:29:11.540
with the

414
00:29:13.319 --> 00:29:18.069
URL as the subject because it's what the user

415
00:29:20.400 --> 00:29:22.300
was just thinking about.

416
00:29:25.310 --> 00:29:28.170
Explain an active voice

417
00:29:31.400 --> 00:29:32.780
that it was changed

418
00:29:34.010 --> 00:29:39.589
when I say active voice. Uh the URL above. No, but then the server is the subject.

419
00:29:39.599 --> 00:29:40.920
The URL is the object.

420
00:29:41.660 --> 00:29:43.839
Yeah. So I'm not even being grammatical.

421
00:29:59.890 --> 00:29:59.920
Yeah.

422
00:30:02.479 --> 00:30:06.709
And I do try pretty hard to write messages in active voice.

423
00:30:06.719 --> 00:30:09.859
But in this case, I think it's clearest for the user if

424
00:30:11.729 --> 00:30:12.569
they

425
00:30:14.040 --> 00:30:17.060
see the object that they were just paying attention to

426
00:30:19.160 --> 00:30:20.229
anyways. Thank you, Jay Mi

427
00:30:20.489 --> 00:30:22.660
I I appreciate you bringing up the

428
00:30:24.300 --> 00:30:27.150
pr that was hanging around. I didn't realize it was

429
00:30:27.469 --> 00:30:28.640
waiting for attention.

430
00:30:35.880 --> 00:30:38.760
So coming back to story merging,

431
00:30:39.449 --> 00:30:39.959
but

432
00:30:40.140 --> 00:30:41.410
with the reminder that

433
00:30:42.040 --> 00:30:44.530
if you have stuff you would like to talk about on stream,

434
00:30:44.540 --> 00:30:46.930
you can just bring up questions most anytime

435
00:30:47.140 --> 00:30:51.060
I will either stick them in the dock and come back to them in a few minutes or

436
00:30:51.500 --> 00:30:52.660
just jump into them.

437
00:30:57.780 --> 00:31:00.709
So we're talking about how story emerging

438
00:31:01.069 --> 00:31:03.140
there is this feature that's been hanging out

439
00:31:03.780 --> 00:31:04.540
where

440
00:31:05.680 --> 00:31:09.400
users can submit, suggested title changes,

441
00:31:10.099 --> 00:31:13.300
which is very often removing things like

442
00:31:13.599 --> 00:31:15.500
the name of the blog or the author of the

443
00:31:15.510 --> 00:31:18.439
blog because people don't always catch that in line help

444
00:31:20.280 --> 00:31:22.660
or tag editing where they're like. Yeah, you know,

445
00:31:23.760 --> 00:31:25.380
this is about a programming language and

446
00:31:25.390 --> 00:31:27.859
you just tagged programming generally rather than

447
00:31:28.050 --> 00:31:28.900
Python

448
00:31:29.060 --> 00:31:29.780
or

449
00:31:30.010 --> 00:31:30.609
uh

450
00:31:31.180 --> 00:31:32.660
what's the other one that's real common?

451
00:31:36.699 --> 00:31:39.910
Yeah, I'm not sure there is one that's quite as ubiquitous as

452
00:31:40.640 --> 00:31:43.020
folks leaving and stuff that we take out of titles

453
00:31:52.369 --> 00:31:56.979
so users can do that, but they cannot suggest story merges.

454
00:31:58.939 --> 00:31:59.619
And

455
00:32:04.170 --> 00:32:05.780
that one is also it's been

456
00:32:07.550 --> 00:32:09.280
there was a discussion on the site.

457
00:32:09.969 --> 00:32:10.949
I don't think

458
00:32:11.390 --> 00:32:13.069
this one, the other

459
00:32:13.400 --> 00:32:15.739
merging story guy that I clicked by

460
00:32:16.079 --> 00:32:17.449
and I closed it.

461
00:32:18.449 --> 00:32:18.949
But

462
00:32:22.920 --> 00:32:23.709
there's

463
00:32:27.880 --> 00:32:30.380
like in a narrow technical sense,

464
00:32:30.560 --> 00:32:33.989
allowing users to set the merged story ID column is

465
00:32:34.000 --> 00:32:37.160
the exact same functionality as allowing them to suggest title.

466
00:32:39.010 --> 00:32:40.989
And it's just as easy to reverse.

467
00:32:41.949 --> 00:32:48.089
But then like the resulting UU I of merged stories is a little bit clunky and it's not

468
00:32:48.390 --> 00:32:52.130
clear to submitters what that means. We'll talk about that in a minute.

469
00:32:52.920 --> 00:32:55.660
And so I've been reluctant to pick this up even

470
00:32:55.670 --> 00:32:58.939
though it's been an obvious feature for 6.5 years.

471
00:33:01.989 --> 00:33:06.329
And I noted down here today when I was reviewing before the show

472
00:33:06.579 --> 00:33:07.130
that

473
00:33:08.260 --> 00:33:11.930
we talked about the story controller yas application to lean

474
00:33:11.939 --> 00:33:16.369
more into rails by splitting up the story controllers actions

475
00:33:17.189 --> 00:33:17.880
like

476
00:33:18.619 --> 00:33:23.760
allowing users to suggest or allowing mods to edit into their own controllers.

477
00:33:25.510 --> 00:33:29.969
And it would also benefit from the reactor refactor in 1298

478
00:33:30.569 --> 00:33:32.640
which is uh already open. It's

479
00:33:33.469 --> 00:33:36.290
the bug from the bug factory where

480
00:33:37.060 --> 00:33:40.579
a feature does not interact well with story emerging

481
00:33:40.810 --> 00:33:41.729
because

482
00:33:43.380 --> 00:33:44.439
story

483
00:33:44.640 --> 00:33:48.400
merging is implemented as each story has a

484
00:33:48.459 --> 00:33:51.790
column in the database called Merged story ID.

485
00:33:52.780 --> 00:33:57.069
And so the story table and Rails is very table oriented.

486
00:34:00.939 --> 00:34:04.680
It makes the story table kind of equivocate between

487
00:34:04.949 --> 00:34:06.930
whether a story is a

488
00:34:07.040 --> 00:34:09.909
single link or a single text.

489
00:34:12.879 --> 00:34:17.489
And then the alternate thing it could be is a merged story, which might mean

490
00:34:21.699 --> 00:34:25.969
the group of all stories that were submitted to make this one entry,

491
00:34:25.978 --> 00:34:27.918
which is kind of how the URL thinks of it

492
00:34:28.820 --> 00:34:29.679
or

493
00:34:31.678 --> 00:34:35.539
the target for all of those merged story ID columns,

494
00:34:35.549 --> 00:34:39.978
which is again an individual link, but that one that becomes kind of special

495
00:34:41.408 --> 00:34:43.868
and I call it the Bug factory because

496
00:34:44.319 --> 00:34:45.739
as I put it on um

497
00:34:46.678 --> 00:34:48.279
the post

498
00:34:48.447 --> 00:34:52.099
leading up to the stream, if anybody follows me on blue sky or Mastodon

499
00:34:54.580 --> 00:34:59.120
story is a God object and then everything that interacts with it has to

500
00:34:59.129 --> 00:35:03.679
have the complexity of checking the merged story ID column in both directions.

501
00:35:03.689 --> 00:35:06.260
Both is this story merged into others

502
00:35:06.459 --> 00:35:07.080
and

503
00:35:07.199 --> 00:35:09.590
are other stories merged into this?

504
00:35:11.310 --> 00:35:12.939
And then it's not clear.

505
00:35:13.149 --> 00:35:15.570
So the way the hidden stories table works

506
00:35:18.949 --> 00:35:24.340
is it is a very small join table from user ID. In this case, Gustav

507
00:35:24.500 --> 00:35:26.090
who is here sometimes I think

508
00:35:26.840 --> 00:35:27.699
to

509
00:35:28.860 --> 00:35:30.189
story ID

510
00:35:31.709 --> 00:35:35.949
and so in the extra step of looking up comments,

511
00:35:37.790 --> 00:35:40.649
it doesn't respect the story merging and it,

512
00:35:42.189 --> 00:35:43.449
yeah, it really should.

513
00:35:53.500 --> 00:35:57.239
So maybe last stream or the one before

514
00:35:59.860 --> 00:36:00.679
where to go.

515
00:36:07.110 --> 00:36:08.770
I'd have to look back at the scratches.

516
00:36:09.439 --> 00:36:12.300
We talked about some options for

517
00:36:15.570 --> 00:36:17.469
how to factor this and

518
00:36:17.679 --> 00:36:20.429
how I was kind of blocked on what to call

519
00:36:21.760 --> 00:36:23.610
the two entities resulting.

520
00:36:24.550 --> 00:36:26.709
And after sleeping on it for a few days,

521
00:36:26.719 --> 00:36:31.070
I really come along to doing the opposite of what I wrote in this issue

522
00:36:31.620 --> 00:36:32.489
and having

523
00:36:33.179 --> 00:36:37.389
a headline which is the item that can appear on the front page. Uh that,

524
00:36:37.560 --> 00:36:38.399
that seems nice.

525
00:36:39.620 --> 00:36:42.280
And then a story is the individual

526
00:36:43.580 --> 00:36:44.610
link

527
00:36:44.979 --> 00:36:46.199
or text

528
00:36:47.739 --> 00:36:49.820
and or text if we want to be pedantic

529
00:36:53.449 --> 00:36:55.129
and then features like

530
00:36:55.419 --> 00:36:57.429
hidden stories becomes

531
00:36:57.750 --> 00:36:59.149
hidden headlines

532
00:36:59.840 --> 00:37:01.620
and they are forced to say,

533
00:37:02.030 --> 00:37:02.750
oh yeah,

534
00:37:02.989 --> 00:37:04.469
someone has hidden this headline.

535
00:37:04.479 --> 00:37:06.729
So we are merging, you know,

536
00:37:06.739 --> 00:37:11.639
all stories listed on it and the common case is going to be that there is exactly one.

537
00:37:12.189 --> 00:37:13.820
But every time there's a merge, we're gonna

538
00:37:14.300 --> 00:37:15.379
merge the others

539
00:37:17.629 --> 00:37:19.100
or include the others.

540
00:37:19.520 --> 00:37:22.750
I hope that's clear how we factoring this would,

541
00:37:23.000 --> 00:37:25.610
would solve the bug factory because then

542
00:37:26.949 --> 00:37:28.239
every story,

543
00:37:28.250 --> 00:37:32.120
regardless of whether or not it's merged has the same database structure

544
00:37:36.919 --> 00:37:37.840
and it's not

545
00:37:38.070 --> 00:37:41.739
strictly needed for fixing some of the UIs stuff, but

546
00:37:43.780 --> 00:37:49.050
it always seems nicer to fix database issues before U I issues.

547
00:37:57.949 --> 00:37:59.120
So we've talked about

548
00:37:59.469 --> 00:38:00.469
the bug factor,

549
00:38:00.810 --> 00:38:04.370
we've talked about features, we don't really have

550
00:38:05.500 --> 00:38:08.639
the other feature we don't have that

551
00:38:09.040 --> 00:38:10.560
people kind of want

552
00:38:12.040 --> 00:38:12.780
is

553
00:38:14.699 --> 00:38:17.149
down here for. But my exposure,

554
00:38:17.350 --> 00:38:18.000
so

555
00:38:18.790 --> 00:38:19.729
especially when

556
00:38:20.419 --> 00:38:21.330
people are

557
00:38:22.429 --> 00:38:27.469
self promoting or trying to rebut something that they are really disagree with.

558
00:38:30.610 --> 00:38:34.560
They get pretty unhappy about seeing their link submitted even when they

559
00:38:34.570 --> 00:38:39.949
are very explicitly submitting it to respond to an existing story.

560
00:38:41.429 --> 00:38:46.189
And we merged to keep our discussions together to avoid having to rehash things.

561
00:38:48.070 --> 00:38:52.530
But people feel like they are missing out on exposure

562
00:38:52.780 --> 00:38:56.879
and this is kind of an uncharitable way of putting it. But my exposure,

563
00:39:00.189 --> 00:39:02.010
I don't have a better way to put it

564
00:39:02.370 --> 00:39:04.219
because people don't usually

565
00:39:04.659 --> 00:39:10.010
explicitly say that they feel entitled to one of the 25 slots on the home page,

566
00:39:10.790 --> 00:39:11.919
but that's what they want.

567
00:39:15.479 --> 00:39:16.139
And

568
00:39:16.979 --> 00:39:18.439
it's not obvious

569
00:39:18.810 --> 00:39:21.399
because the story disappears from slash newest

570
00:39:21.409 --> 00:39:23.040
when it's merged into something else.

571
00:39:23.050 --> 00:39:23.479
And that's

572
00:39:23.669 --> 00:39:25.520
one of the ways that people read the site.

573
00:39:26.439 --> 00:39:27.820
But those discussions

574
00:39:29.000 --> 00:39:35.129
do show up on slash active. So if any story in emerged story and I don't,

575
00:39:35.840 --> 00:39:37.620
are there any on the page here,

576
00:39:40.250 --> 00:39:42.350
Firefox, is that why is there

577
00:39:42.469 --> 00:39:42.479
a,

578
00:39:44.280 --> 00:39:46.580
this is one of those stories that sounds like it's gonna be about

579
00:39:46.929 --> 00:39:50.020
using software instead of actually making software,

580
00:39:50.949 --> 00:39:52.010
which is not

581
00:39:52.699 --> 00:39:55.699
a super strict distinction on the site for topicality.

582
00:39:55.709 --> 00:39:57.189
But I think about it a little bit,

583
00:40:02.229 --> 00:40:05.850
Firefox is also a developer tool. So yeah.

584
00:40:06.800 --> 00:40:08.739
Oh, here we go. Here's a merged story.

585
00:40:09.320 --> 00:40:14.929
So it's not obvious from this list, but this one has had another link merged into it

586
00:40:15.550 --> 00:40:20.010
and it's ordering on slash active is the latest comment

587
00:40:20.340 --> 00:40:22.889
in any of its merged stories.

588
00:40:23.219 --> 00:40:24.770
So the exposure is there

589
00:40:25.030 --> 00:40:25.570
and

590
00:40:25.689 --> 00:40:28.370
this is why I put slash active

591
00:40:29.100 --> 00:40:31.149
like literally next to

592
00:40:31.570 --> 00:40:33.879
the logo. The top thing in the upper left,

593
00:40:34.340 --> 00:40:35.659
this was only about

594
00:40:35.919 --> 00:40:41.629
2.5 years ago and so on a regular basis, long time users still

595
00:40:41.780 --> 00:40:43.959
notice slash active for the first time.

596
00:40:46.580 --> 00:40:48.270
Yeah, I'll throw this one in as long as I'm

597
00:40:49.199 --> 00:40:50.750
sharing an example,

598
00:40:51.100 --> 00:40:52.229
Mert's story

599
00:40:54.969 --> 00:40:56.300
and then in the uh

600
00:40:56.540 --> 00:40:58.590
where are we in the notes here?

601
00:41:01.659 --> 00:41:02.969
I will throw in that

602
00:41:03.520 --> 00:41:05.189
we have a couple of examples

603
00:41:11.439 --> 00:41:16.699
and no discussion of merged stories would be complete. Speaking of examples

604
00:41:16.860 --> 00:41:20.879
without the most merged story in Lobster's history.

605
00:41:21.870 --> 00:41:24.800
Does anybody know what it is offhand? This has come up on the site?

606
00:41:25.679 --> 00:41:26.379
Um

607
00:41:27.100 --> 00:41:31.550
I know it's come up in the chat room maybe two or three times over the years.

608
00:41:37.149 --> 00:41:37.989
The

609
00:41:40.540 --> 00:41:45.469
story and Lobster's history that includes the most links merged into it

610
00:41:48.929 --> 00:41:51.639
is Microsoft acquires github.

611
00:41:54.060 --> 00:41:55.800
I think that's the title

612
00:41:56.729 --> 00:41:58.030
that ended up getting used.

613
00:42:04.689 --> 00:42:05.469
Yeah, here we go,

614
00:42:06.209 --> 00:42:08.929
Microsoft to acquire github for 7.5 billion.

615
00:42:09.439 --> 00:42:10.449
So this one

616
00:42:10.659 --> 00:42:11.429
has

617
00:42:12.649 --> 00:42:21.219
123456789, 1011, 1213 linked into it. Yep, that is the most

618
00:42:24.060 --> 00:42:27.560
and I included because I think it's always useful to have

619
00:42:27.949 --> 00:42:28.840
these kind of

620
00:42:29.120 --> 00:42:32.800
outliers to understand. Well, what's the most extreme version of this?

621
00:42:35.860 --> 00:42:36.949
And I think it is

622
00:42:37.239 --> 00:42:40.199
to the site's benefit that all of these got merged together.

623
00:42:40.350 --> 00:42:43.939
Oh, there's actually like 1/14 link that the original submitter

624
00:42:44.350 --> 00:42:45.939
put into the story text.

625
00:42:47.719 --> 00:42:49.250
Yeah. So

626
00:42:49.790 --> 00:42:54.449
one of the places that merge stories are especially useful is hot take responses.

627
00:42:55.239 --> 00:42:59.489
Like a bunch of these are like this one. Floss rambling on Microsoft buy

628
00:43:00.449 --> 00:43:02.300
github has sold us out like

629
00:43:03.459 --> 00:43:05.199
these are people who have

630
00:43:07.080 --> 00:43:10.969
moralizing quick responses rather than very deep.

631
00:43:12.199 --> 00:43:14.179
What does this mean kind of reflection?

632
00:43:14.189 --> 00:43:17.830
Because if we went and looked at these dates, so

633
00:43:18.260 --> 00:43:20.689
649 15

634
00:43:21.159 --> 00:43:21.979
and then

635
00:43:22.209 --> 00:43:24.699
the first one that kind of sounds like

636
00:43:25.739 --> 00:43:27.489
response is

637
00:43:27.860 --> 00:43:30.780
64, 1255.

638
00:43:31.110 --> 00:43:33.830
So like in 3.5 hours, did this user

639
00:43:34.270 --> 00:43:36.520
think extremely deeply on it

640
00:43:36.739 --> 00:43:37.750
and come up with

641
00:43:37.989 --> 00:43:41.120
not user author, think deeply on it and come up with something

642
00:43:41.439 --> 00:43:42.830
not, not really

643
00:43:43.149 --> 00:43:43.399
you

644
00:43:44.270 --> 00:43:46.850
you're not gonna come up with something deep in three hours,

645
00:43:47.300 --> 00:43:47.760
but

646
00:43:49.659 --> 00:43:51.149
a lot of this stuff just kinda

647
00:43:51.280 --> 00:43:53.360
poured in in the first couple of hours.

648
00:44:00.760 --> 00:44:04.300
This one is also a pretty good example because some of these

649
00:44:04.959 --> 00:44:07.860
I didn't see instantly for the merging.

650
00:44:12.489 --> 00:44:13.010
Yeah.

651
00:44:14.110 --> 00:44:16.310
And so they had pretty good threads on them.

652
00:44:18.969 --> 00:44:22.340
Oh It's funny, I I just randomly scrolled in here and

653
00:44:22.469 --> 00:44:24.979
landed on people talking about story merging.

654
00:44:27.479 --> 00:44:28.780
And so then it became

655
00:44:31.300 --> 00:44:33.239
some amount of confusing rehashes.

656
00:44:33.250 --> 00:44:35.840
People are like, wait, which story are you responding to?

657
00:44:36.060 --> 00:44:37.379
Cause again, people just

658
00:44:37.760 --> 00:44:39.560
don't see the part on the right.

659
00:44:48.689 --> 00:44:51.270
Yeah. One of the benefits of merged stories

660
00:44:52.050 --> 00:44:53.620
is and this one

661
00:44:57.179 --> 00:44:58.399
Microsoft to acquire github

662
00:44:58.639 --> 00:45:01.080
that is straight up business news, right?

663
00:45:01.540 --> 00:45:02.530
Everybody knows it.

664
00:45:03.610 --> 00:45:07.850
And I would remove, I have removed many acquisition stories.

665
00:45:08.120 --> 00:45:09.550
I left this one up because

666
00:45:10.209 --> 00:45:12.149
just get how this ubiquitous

667
00:45:12.570 --> 00:45:15.449
we obviously need to talk about it by the fact that it was submitted

668
00:45:15.600 --> 00:45:17.469
14 different links.

669
00:45:18.669 --> 00:45:21.760
I think it was worth bending the rules on topicality. A little there.

670
00:45:23.669 --> 00:45:25.370
And Fritchie, what you're saying

671
00:45:25.659 --> 00:45:29.169
really gets to one of the benefits of story emerging is

672
00:45:30.159 --> 00:45:31.800
if you don't want to get into it,

673
00:45:32.169 --> 00:45:34.459
you can ignore that story.

674
00:45:34.639 --> 00:45:38.459
You can click hide on that story. Well, not that it works perfectly,

675
00:45:38.729 --> 00:45:39.860
but it mostly works

676
00:45:42.379 --> 00:45:43.919
and you can move on with your life.

677
00:45:46.239 --> 00:45:48.199
A lot of the times there's lots of stuff where you're like,

678
00:45:48.209 --> 00:45:50.530
you know what I'm not required to have an opinion on this.

679
00:45:50.800 --> 00:45:52.939
How's that uh that Seneca quote? Go

680
00:46:07.790 --> 00:46:08.830
oh yeah, there it is.

681
00:46:11.969 --> 00:46:14.050
Oh, not Seneca Aurelius,

682
00:46:14.550 --> 00:46:15.790
I guess I got close enough.

683
00:46:16.479 --> 00:46:19.580
We have the power to hold no opinion about a thing and to not let it

684
00:46:19.590 --> 00:46:23.100
upset our state of mind for things have no natural power to shape our judgment.

685
00:46:24.199 --> 00:46:24.989
So uh

686
00:46:25.330 --> 00:46:30.219
meditations is a series of notes that Aurelius wrote to himself.

687
00:46:30.469 --> 00:46:31.020
So

688
00:46:31.709 --> 00:46:36.330
you can read this as someone saying like, dude, you don't have to carry about every

689
00:46:36.659 --> 00:46:38.610
bit of news that passes by.

690
00:46:38.780 --> 00:46:41.149
You don't have to have a hot take.

691
00:46:41.550 --> 00:46:43.479
You know, that would be the modern translation.

692
00:46:43.820 --> 00:46:45.409
You can just let events go by.

693
00:46:47.879 --> 00:46:50.350
And if you don't have an opinion on this kind of thing,

694
00:46:51.010 --> 00:46:53.649
you can click hide on the story and move on

695
00:46:53.840 --> 00:46:55.149
as opposed to

696
00:46:55.689 --> 00:46:57.090
if we didn't have story merging,

697
00:46:57.100 --> 00:47:02.110
it would have been basically the whole front page for two or three days.

698
00:47:02.129 --> 00:47:04.189
Uh call it half of the home page. But

699
00:47:06.080 --> 00:47:07.219
story emerging,

700
00:47:07.229 --> 00:47:10.449
one of the things it does just by existing is

701
00:47:10.459 --> 00:47:13.320
it is it encourages people to post in comments.

702
00:47:13.330 --> 00:47:16.260
Oh, there's a topic. Yeah, put that in the notes.

703
00:47:22.300 --> 00:47:23.060
So I just

704
00:47:23.639 --> 00:47:25.760
shoved that in the scratch scratch file,

705
00:47:25.770 --> 00:47:28.129
but it encourages people to leave comments

706
00:47:28.139 --> 00:47:30.919
with links instead of starting more stories.

707
00:47:31.810 --> 00:47:32.570
So

708
00:47:32.870 --> 00:47:36.030
I'm not gonna go through this one. But if we didn't

709
00:47:37.070 --> 00:47:40.209
have story merging, and this was the first time we've had story merging,

710
00:47:40.219 --> 00:47:41.570
we probably would have seen

711
00:47:42.479 --> 00:47:44.729
at least five or 10 more links

712
00:47:45.280 --> 00:47:48.500
as people were responding to stuff and then linking

713
00:47:48.510 --> 00:47:50.919
in comments instead of submitting top level stories.

714
00:47:52.500 --> 00:47:53.679
As I recall

715
00:47:54.929 --> 00:47:59.870
the next two or three days, the hacker news home page was just all Microsoft buying

716
00:48:00.129 --> 00:48:00.360
github

717
00:48:02.090 --> 00:48:03.969
and I think our programming was similar.

718
00:48:06.830 --> 00:48:08.770
So that's one of the benefits of story merging.

719
00:48:10.530 --> 00:48:12.600
Speaking of the benefits of story emerging.

720
00:48:20.290 --> 00:48:23.830
So five years ago, this person said

721
00:48:25.219 --> 00:48:27.159
they quoted the about page and said

722
00:48:27.649 --> 00:48:30.229
uh a lot of what we've talked about where

723
00:48:33.229 --> 00:48:35.080
there are downsides to story merging,

724
00:48:35.090 --> 00:48:37.550
where it feels like they vanish from the home page.

725
00:48:38.820 --> 00:48:40.949
Oftentimes in the middle of active discussion,

726
00:48:40.959 --> 00:48:44.899
this might even be where I picked up the word active because at the time of this post,

727
00:48:44.909 --> 00:48:46.969
we did not have active up in the

728
00:48:47.889 --> 00:48:48.709
top level

729
00:48:50.899 --> 00:48:55.959
merging, disrupts the comment threading where it's really unclear by the U I

730
00:48:57.739 --> 00:49:00.639
and then this one relevant and interesting news effectively

731
00:49:00.649 --> 00:49:02.310
get hidden from a large part of the readership

732
00:49:03.360 --> 00:49:03.899
that is

733
00:49:04.389 --> 00:49:09.570
kind of the first post. Again, I think maybe the difference is, or first point again,

734
00:49:09.679 --> 00:49:11.300
I think maybe the difference is

735
00:49:13.919 --> 00:49:14.530
no,

736
00:49:15.409 --> 00:49:17.510
I don't know another way to put that besides

737
00:49:18.010 --> 00:49:19.149
it's about exposure.

738
00:49:27.429 --> 00:49:32.169
I guess the uh and their example here is breaking news that had developments

739
00:49:32.959 --> 00:49:34.860
and breaking news is

740
00:49:35.709 --> 00:49:38.189
especially prone to

741
00:49:38.610 --> 00:49:43.010
having pretty rough discussions as people both rehash what came before the

742
00:49:43.179 --> 00:49:44.010
the news

743
00:49:44.659 --> 00:49:46.520
and then react to the title.

744
00:49:47.780 --> 00:49:51.860
And when we have stories where people react to the title, which mostly is paywalls,

745
00:49:51.870 --> 00:49:54.590
but then also happens a lot with news, we have

746
00:49:57.060 --> 00:50:00.159
more likely incendiary discussions and

747
00:50:02.110 --> 00:50:04.760
don't really get anywhere interesting,

748
00:50:07.070 --> 00:50:09.449
which is why paywall stuff gets removed.

749
00:50:22.360 --> 00:50:24.300
Yeah, save stories is the bug.

750
00:50:29.669 --> 00:50:33.090
So I left a there was a, a solid discussion about this one

751
00:50:35.479 --> 00:50:39.979
and I improved the description of merging on the about page based on it,

752
00:50:41.209 --> 00:50:44.229
but in the years since cause it has been five years.

753
00:50:45.659 --> 00:50:47.120
I've come to think that

754
00:50:47.899 --> 00:50:49.909
how many mergers have there been like total?

755
00:50:53.439 --> 00:50:56.260
Let's check. Oh A Rhi was wondering if I'd see you.

756
00:50:56.649 --> 00:50:58.169
We had a weird event

757
00:50:59.590 --> 00:51:01.370
maybe two days ago.

758
00:51:02.840 --> 00:51:04.399
Yeah, it must have been Sunday

759
00:51:05.159 --> 00:51:05.820
cause I was

760
00:51:06.919 --> 00:51:08.330
Yeah, well, Sunday, um

761
00:51:10.649 --> 00:51:14.429
someone submitted a story about Mozilla rebranding

762
00:51:14.800 --> 00:51:17.189
and they had a user name similar to yours.

763
00:51:17.330 --> 00:51:17.679
And

764
00:51:18.469 --> 00:51:19.159
oddly enough,

765
00:51:19.169 --> 00:51:21.790
they submitted a story and then like an

766
00:51:21.800 --> 00:51:24.090
hour later came back and deleted their account

767
00:51:24.969 --> 00:51:25.600
and it was a,

768
00:51:26.370 --> 00:51:28.169
it was all done by the time I saw it,

769
00:51:28.179 --> 00:51:31.510
but they had just gotten a couple of anodyne comments about

770
00:51:35.310 --> 00:51:36.409
branding and then

771
00:51:37.129 --> 00:51:39.750
I was really puzzled by it. I was hoping it wasn't you,

772
00:51:41.459 --> 00:51:43.120
but they did have a user name similar.

773
00:51:48.250 --> 00:51:48.899
OK.

774
00:51:50.510 --> 00:51:51.830
Well, glad you're still with us.

775
00:52:03.379 --> 00:52:05.840
So when you say how many mergers have there been?

776
00:52:12.020 --> 00:52:15.320
I wanna make sure I'm making this join in the right direction.

777
00:52:15.330 --> 00:52:17.159
Where's that other example?

778
00:52:17.850 --> 00:52:18.429
Um

779
00:52:19.429 --> 00:52:20.719
That one was

780
00:52:21.989 --> 00:52:23.330
also too. So,

781
00:52:28.080 --> 00:52:33.580
so a Rh for your query, would you count this as one or would you count this as 13?

782
00:52:35.110 --> 00:52:35.810
Well, I mean,

783
00:52:37.020 --> 00:52:41.320
just the one target rather than the 12 that were merged in?

784
00:52:43.610 --> 00:52:44.719
OK, 13.

785
00:52:45.149 --> 00:52:47.330
So do you wanna include

786
00:52:48.600 --> 00:52:51.290
the top level one or just the ones that emerged?

787
00:52:52.149 --> 00:52:53.729
Number of merge icons? Sure.

788
00:53:06.110 --> 00:53:07.219
What is it? Banana

789
00:53:07.340 --> 00:53:08.739
and come here?

790
00:53:09.100 --> 00:53:10.530
Oh, red line.

791
00:53:19.219 --> 00:53:21.719
Uh not deleted that, I guess it is deleted

792
00:53:21.850 --> 00:53:23.919
and it just didn't wanna autocomplete for me.

793
00:53:26.389 --> 00:53:26.969
That's

794
00:53:28.290 --> 00:53:29.530
or not is known.

795
00:53:42.689 --> 00:53:45.550
OK. So we've had 754

796
00:53:47.120 --> 00:53:48.389
in the life of the sight

797
00:53:57.500 --> 00:53:59.320
and then just for a ballpark,

798
00:54:02.010 --> 00:54:06.149
this is just top level, there's 100 and 6000, 237

799
00:54:08.840 --> 00:54:12.270
or maybe a better overall denominator would be

800
00:54:14.010 --> 00:54:14.510
100

801
00:54:15.040 --> 00:54:17.070
yeah, rounded to 100 and 7000.

802
00:54:19.620 --> 00:54:20.479
So that's what,

803
00:54:36.120 --> 00:54:37.550
yeah, 0.7%

804
00:54:40.500 --> 00:54:44.189
I mean, it's almost your user name, right? 0.69 instead of 68.

805
00:54:57.560 --> 00:54:59.639
And we get roughly

806
00:55:00.560 --> 00:55:01.340
lately,

807
00:55:07.959 --> 00:55:09.780
it feels like we get about

808
00:55:10.989 --> 00:55:12.959
20 or so

809
00:55:13.209 --> 00:55:16.409
20 to 30 links a day. I would have to check.

810
00:55:16.959 --> 00:55:19.370
And so that's a, a story gets merged

811
00:55:19.649 --> 00:55:21.399
every couple of days,

812
00:55:21.739 --> 00:55:22.610
you know, call it

813
00:55:22.889 --> 00:55:23.929
two times a week.

814
00:55:27.010 --> 00:55:30.909
I can query out the exact numbers, but that's just kind of my ballpark.

815
00:55:45.699 --> 00:55:47.399
So emerging is

816
00:55:52.909 --> 00:55:54.580
it is and isn't a mess.

817
00:55:57.000 --> 00:55:57.469
It

818
00:55:57.830 --> 00:56:00.379
isn't a mess in the sense of

819
00:56:00.600 --> 00:56:04.929
on any given story, you could update that merged story ID column

820
00:56:06.280 --> 00:56:07.000
right

821
00:56:08.050 --> 00:56:09.270
out to another.

822
00:56:09.600 --> 00:56:12.189
You could just update that to know

823
00:56:12.550 --> 00:56:16.510
and those comments, like you see this very first top comment,

824
00:56:17.719 --> 00:56:20.500
it has the story ID for

825
00:56:21.709 --> 00:56:23.040
the Bloomberg one

826
00:56:24.709 --> 00:56:26.189
which was reporting.

827
00:56:28.510 --> 00:56:32.030
And so if on this Bloomberg story,

828
00:56:32.620 --> 00:56:34.290
I clicked on merge

829
00:56:34.909 --> 00:56:37.560
this comment tree would move over,

830
00:56:39.030 --> 00:56:40.439
but at the same time,

831
00:56:41.550 --> 00:56:44.030
and I'm not logged in. So you don't see the comment box.

832
00:56:44.189 --> 00:56:48.550
But if I were logged in and I was mostly wanting to respond to the

833
00:56:48.560 --> 00:56:52.929
Bloomberg story or one of the comments and I left a new top level comment,

834
00:56:53.649 --> 00:56:55.580
it would always go to this

835
00:56:56.280 --> 00:56:58.659
with this story ID rather than

836
00:57:00.219 --> 00:57:05.280
say Bloomberg or as somebody else pointed out, Drew de Vault's response.

837
00:57:08.449 --> 00:57:09.189
And

838
00:57:10.050 --> 00:57:11.629
so in that sense,

839
00:57:13.389 --> 00:57:15.449
it would kind of be a mess.

840
00:57:16.689 --> 00:57:19.409
There is no site feature for

841
00:57:19.570 --> 00:57:23.649
moving threads from one story to another

842
00:57:24.229 --> 00:57:26.840
and I could do it in the database. But it would,

843
00:57:27.560 --> 00:57:29.590
boy, that would be just dangerous

844
00:57:30.290 --> 00:57:33.570
because there's no, no guardrails if I go to the database

845
00:57:33.729 --> 00:57:36.080
and then I have to manually write moderation messages.

846
00:57:40.050 --> 00:57:42.199
So that 26 up votes

847
00:57:43.899 --> 00:57:44.750
is

848
00:57:48.219 --> 00:57:49.540
so let's see.

849
00:57:53.770 --> 00:57:55.669
Yeah, it got 31.

850
00:57:56.199 --> 00:57:56.830
So it's

851
00:57:57.129 --> 00:58:02.870
air, it's net 26. So it got 31 up votes and then four flags.

852
00:58:04.860 --> 00:58:05.520
But

853
00:58:06.469 --> 00:58:09.169
you're losing one frame one second.

854
00:58:10.979 --> 00:58:12.709
I am not getting any kind of

855
00:58:13.649 --> 00:58:14.989
error out of

856
00:58:15.620 --> 00:58:17.189
my streaming setup.

857
00:58:18.520 --> 00:58:21.340
BS thinks it hasn't dropped any frames

858
00:58:23.649 --> 00:58:25.800
and the stream health graph is still green.

859
00:58:32.939 --> 00:58:35.399
No. Now the stream, now that I reload

860
00:58:36.100 --> 00:58:36.840
the dashboard

861
00:58:38.409 --> 00:58:41.469
Twitch says the stream is unstable. Thanks. Twitch.

862
00:58:49.300 --> 00:58:49.370
OK.

863
00:58:53.459 --> 00:58:54.040
Are you right?

864
00:58:54.810 --> 00:58:57.669
I shouldn't put this in chat. I should just put it on the screen. Right.

865
00:59:18.250 --> 00:59:18.270
The

866
00:59:18.379 --> 00:59:18.689
only

867
00:59:26.080 --> 00:59:27.949
a rich, what are you asking about? F

868
00:59:31.080 --> 00:59:32.409
I don't know if I'm audible.

869
00:59:47.100 --> 00:59:49.020
Oh F in the chat

870
00:59:49.379 --> 00:59:52.580
f to pay respects. All right. Just took me a second to get there.

871
00:59:57.629 --> 00:59:58.719
Yeah, it's just

872
00:59:59.239 --> 01:00:01.489
gone to hell for no discernible reason.

873
01:00:01.939 --> 01:00:03.239
It didn't even rain today.

874
01:00:06.030 --> 01:00:09.469
Ah, hey, again, GTFRVZ. Yeah, that's,

875
01:00:09.590 --> 01:00:10.449
that's the meme.

876
01:00:10.739 --> 01:00:11.219
I didn't

877
01:00:11.689 --> 01:00:17.250
how funny to see a, a meme page on Wikipedia instead of on know your meme.

878
01:00:37.709 --> 01:00:37.830
Yeah.

879
01:00:37.840 --> 01:00:39.959
The situation is really frustrating and I don't know

880
01:00:39.969 --> 01:00:43.000
if it is on Twitch's end or my end.

881
01:00:43.219 --> 01:00:44.679
Probably mine. Right.

882
01:00:44.810 --> 01:00:45.280
But

883
01:00:47.879 --> 01:00:49.850
s doesn't show any issue.

884
01:01:00.010 --> 01:01:00.669
Hm.

885
01:01:10.479 --> 01:01:11.290
Are the

886
01:01:13.350 --> 01:01:17.770
Am I audible cleanly or am I? Is my voice also dropping out?

887
01:01:18.280 --> 01:01:20.250
Is it just that the video is behind?

888
01:01:20.260 --> 01:01:22.399
Because if it's just that the video is behind,

889
01:01:22.409 --> 01:01:26.090
I can be a little slower jumping around between things and we can keep rolling.

890
01:01:26.820 --> 01:01:28.000
But if I'm not audible,

891
01:01:28.939 --> 01:01:33.159
I should just stop whether that's a pause or a give up for the day.

892
01:01:36.209 --> 01:01:37.800
Ok. Pull up the clock. Yeah.

893
01:01:44.000 --> 01:01:46.379
So let's bring that in.

894
01:01:51.030 --> 01:01:51.060
Mhm.

895
01:02:03.850 --> 01:02:06.449
Seems to be fine now. Ok, good.

896
01:02:07.449 --> 01:02:08.209
Yeah, the

897
01:02:09.010 --> 01:02:12.500
so Twitch has a little stream health graph that

898
01:02:13.189 --> 01:02:17.050
is not always responsive after refresh. You think you're good. Ok,

899
01:02:18.120 --> 01:02:18.780
so

900
01:02:20.159 --> 01:02:23.100
please refresh if things are awful and let's keep rolling.

901
01:02:23.510 --> 01:02:24.199
Shameless.

902
01:02:24.629 --> 01:02:25.699
Nice to see you again.

903
01:02:31.189 --> 01:02:31.860
Alrighty,

904
01:02:35.550 --> 01:02:37.969
only 30 seconds late and the voice is ok,

905
01:02:39.399 --> 01:02:42.659
30 seconds is a lot more delay. Usually

906
01:02:42.979 --> 01:02:43.620
the

907
01:02:44.590 --> 01:02:49.250
delay tends to be in the 5 to 8 2nd range.

908
01:02:49.600 --> 01:02:52.959
I did notice that folks are responding a little slower in the chat. But

909
01:02:53.949 --> 01:02:54.330
yeah,

910
01:02:55.350 --> 01:02:56.530
so anyways

911
01:02:56.649 --> 01:02:58.090
having broken out of that,

912
01:02:58.290 --> 01:03:03.399
I will do a, you know, a station bumper that this is the lobster's office hours.

913
01:03:03.840 --> 01:03:06.209
And if you want to talk about the site of the community,

914
01:03:06.510 --> 01:03:08.969
you can pop up anytime with questions

915
01:03:09.379 --> 01:03:11.169
and we will talk about

916
01:03:11.280 --> 01:03:11.300
it.

917
01:03:12.070 --> 01:03:14.409
We are working on otherwise

918
01:03:15.830 --> 01:03:20.570
a project to help the site understand itself better, which is to say

919
01:03:21.560 --> 01:03:26.219
to talk about what story emerging is to how it works, how it's implemented,

920
01:03:26.229 --> 01:03:27.469
how it can be buggy.

921
01:03:30.840 --> 01:03:31.330
Hm.

922
01:03:32.729 --> 01:03:33.000
F for,

923
01:03:33.850 --> 01:03:38.429
are you saying 2.5 minutes or are you saying like 2.3 seconds?

924
01:03:41.729 --> 01:03:46.110
Cause 2.5 minutes is a hell of a lot. Nobody's ever said that much delay before.

925
01:03:53.330 --> 01:03:53.679
Hm.

926
01:03:54.479 --> 01:03:56.000
2.3 seconds. Ok.

927
01:03:56.810 --> 01:03:57.310
Just,

928
01:03:59.939 --> 01:04:00.229
you know,

929
01:04:00.239 --> 01:04:02.550
the number was either big enough that it was

930
01:04:02.560 --> 01:04:04.909
surprising or small enough that it was surprising.

931
01:04:10.370 --> 01:04:11.060
So,

932
01:04:11.959 --> 01:04:13.360
in this meta thread

933
01:04:16.340 --> 01:04:17.010
I had

934
01:04:17.320 --> 01:04:19.320
just kind of drifted into,

935
01:04:20.250 --> 01:04:22.669
hey, here's the virtues of story merging

936
01:04:22.830 --> 01:04:24.409
and this was longer than

937
01:04:26.000 --> 01:04:27.540
the value of

938
01:04:32.659 --> 01:04:33.719
longer than the,

939
01:04:33.729 --> 01:04:38.080
the text I added to the about page which we should click over and look at that.

940
01:04:51.080 --> 01:04:52.679
So I believe,

941
01:04:53.639 --> 01:04:57.500
oh man, so the last couple of streams I have talked about

942
01:04:58.090 --> 01:05:01.129
writing stuff and then run to get blame and then

943
01:05:01.250 --> 01:05:02.469
no, I didn't write

944
01:05:02.580 --> 01:05:04.379
it or at most I tweaked it a little.

945
01:05:04.389 --> 01:05:06.560
So I'm gonna avoid putting my foot in my

946
01:05:06.570 --> 01:05:09.580
mouth again about the history of this bullet point.

947
01:05:16.080 --> 01:05:17.010
I just

948
01:05:17.669 --> 01:05:17.689
uh

949
01:05:17.790 --> 01:05:21.169
actually when I just roll right into it, I wanna say

950
01:05:21.699 --> 01:05:26.449
we had like this short sentence and I wrote the later stuff.

951
01:05:30.020 --> 01:05:32.600
Oh And I linked a couple of example stories like

952
01:05:33.030 --> 01:05:34.469
I'm pretty sure this was me. Yeah.

953
01:05:34.479 --> 01:05:37.360
Well, there's the large example that must have been me because

954
01:05:37.649 --> 01:05:40.270
it came well, after J CS left

955
01:05:40.800 --> 01:05:42.469
or not left, step down.

956
01:05:44.879 --> 01:05:45.520
So

957
01:05:52.689 --> 01:05:54.270
I'm basically saying,

958
01:05:55.300 --> 01:05:56.439
where is this link to?

959
01:05:57.629 --> 01:05:59.449
Uh So this links to

960
01:05:59.879 --> 01:06:03.209
J CS S original description of story merging.

961
01:06:06.199 --> 01:06:08.100
And I would like to

962
01:06:08.669 --> 01:06:10.370
replace this link

963
01:06:12.389 --> 01:06:13.139
with a

964
01:06:13.360 --> 01:06:15.580
full page description.

965
01:06:16.040 --> 01:06:22.169
So it would live at something like lobsters slash story merging or lobsters about

966
01:06:22.340 --> 01:06:23.469
slash merging

967
01:06:24.620 --> 01:06:25.959
rather than

968
01:06:26.110 --> 01:06:28.939
there's a little blurb here that links off to

969
01:06:29.800 --> 01:06:31.699
this kind of out of date thing

970
01:06:33.639 --> 01:06:37.139
I say kind of cause like the core of this is the same

971
01:06:38.989 --> 01:06:40.840
but this also points to

972
01:06:44.270 --> 01:06:45.370
some of the

973
01:06:46.439 --> 01:06:47.260
issues

974
01:06:49.139 --> 01:06:52.280
or it doesn't cover some of the issues is maybe a better way to say it.

975
01:06:53.100 --> 01:06:53.550
So,

976
01:07:17.830 --> 01:07:21.570
so given that nobody has piped up with uh more site questions.

977
01:07:21.580 --> 01:07:23.169
What I was basically gonna do

978
01:07:23.479 --> 01:07:24.370
is

979
01:07:24.500 --> 01:07:27.129
take this figure out where to stick a page

980
01:07:27.989 --> 01:07:28.770
and

981
01:07:31.290 --> 01:07:34.209
look at categorizing the existing

982
01:07:34.959 --> 01:07:36.580
story merges

983
01:07:38.330 --> 01:07:39.030
which

984
01:07:39.649 --> 01:07:41.750
I did years ago for

985
01:07:43.520 --> 01:07:46.189
ah so many tabs. I can't keep track of where stuff was,

986
01:07:47.969 --> 01:07:48.770
which I did

987
01:07:50.659 --> 01:07:51.800
roughly

988
01:07:52.020 --> 01:07:57.260
for this where I made a tab separated value of all the merge stories.

989
01:07:57.270 --> 01:07:58.719
So we could see the scope of the topic

990
01:07:59.239 --> 01:08:00.070
and I kind of

991
01:08:00.429 --> 01:08:01.350
skimmed it.

992
01:08:03.219 --> 01:08:04.800
Uh This is certainly still true.

993
01:08:04.810 --> 01:08:07.909
I really appreciate efforts to try and build a shared foundation for discussion.

994
01:08:07.969 --> 01:08:10.469
Remind of that slash about note that I run queries.

995
01:08:11.229 --> 01:08:13.540
This is the same kind of impulse that led

996
01:08:13.550 --> 01:08:16.560
me this year to start doing these office hours because

997
01:08:17.720 --> 01:08:20.879
a big chunk of what I feel is my responsibility

998
01:08:20.890 --> 01:08:24.299
as a moderator is to help the site understand itself

999
01:08:24.669 --> 01:08:25.259
and

1000
01:08:25.910 --> 01:08:27.799
sometimes that means you have to run

1001
01:08:27.810 --> 01:08:30.689
queries against the production database to understand that

1002
01:08:31.169 --> 01:08:35.049
story merging happens 0.7% of stories.

1003
01:08:39.200 --> 01:08:40.669
And if we look at

1004
01:08:40.950 --> 01:08:41.810
the

1005
01:08:42.060 --> 01:08:44.919
moderation messages for all of the merges,

1006
01:08:45.180 --> 01:08:47.220
we can get themes of.

1007
01:08:48.160 --> 01:08:51.600
So the other thing I wanted to include in a document is

1008
01:08:55.129 --> 01:08:57.339
the practices around story merging.

1009
01:08:58.259 --> 01:08:59.060
So

1010
01:08:59.819 --> 01:09:01.229
I believe with that giant

1011
01:09:01.500 --> 01:09:04.919
github thread that the Bloomberg story was released first,

1012
01:09:04.930 --> 01:09:07.799
they uh they beat the press releases into publishing by

1013
01:09:07.939 --> 01:09:09.080
a couple of hours,

1014
01:09:09.729 --> 01:09:10.620
maybe less.

1015
01:09:11.879 --> 01:09:15.600
But we merged into Microsoft's announcement

1016
01:09:15.779 --> 01:09:18.500
because it's kind of the official primary source.

1017
01:09:20.029 --> 01:09:25.209
And so most of the time we prefer to link to the primary source if it's going to

1018
01:09:28.000 --> 01:09:30.279
make enough sense to have context

1019
01:09:30.470 --> 01:09:34.049
and honestly, the only place I should stop uh

1020
01:09:34.609 --> 01:09:36.899
should stop rambling and start making notes, right?

1021
01:09:38.259 --> 01:09:38.879
So,

1022
01:09:41.669 --> 01:09:43.660
all right. So the topics here, let's,

1023
01:09:45.979 --> 01:09:47.839
there we go. So here's kind of those

1024
01:09:56.080 --> 01:09:57.379
topics emerging.

1025
01:10:05.140 --> 01:10:07.540
It's a pain in the week timeline. Um

1026
01:10:07.689 --> 01:10:08.600
Practices

1027
01:10:10.879 --> 01:10:12.060
prefer

1028
01:10:13.109 --> 01:10:14.640
primary source,

1029
01:10:16.979 --> 01:10:18.299
but for

1030
01:10:18.509 --> 01:10:20.080
technical write ups

1031
01:10:20.799 --> 01:10:22.009
to um

1032
01:10:24.089 --> 01:10:25.899
what's the term here? Um

1033
01:10:29.459 --> 01:10:30.689
So if we have,

1034
01:10:33.430 --> 01:10:37.330
if we have two stories submitted about the same time that are on the same topic,

1035
01:10:37.339 --> 01:10:39.399
and one of them is like

1036
01:10:39.930 --> 01:10:43.250
the cnn.com version and one of them is

1037
01:10:44.330 --> 01:10:46.629
Bob's deeply technical blog.

1038
01:10:46.640 --> 01:10:50.779
I would prefer to make Bob's deeply technical Ball blog the primary

1039
01:10:50.790 --> 01:10:53.839
write up because the CNN one is gonna spend a lot of time

1040
01:10:53.939 --> 01:10:56.069
it's not gonna go into his depth and it's gonna

1041
01:10:56.080 --> 01:10:59.149
spend a lot of its time on other stuff rather than

1042
01:10:59.839 --> 01:11:01.939
the real valuable part for us.

1043
01:11:03.509 --> 01:11:04.310
So, I guess just

1044
01:11:04.850 --> 01:11:05.779
two

1045
01:11:06.299 --> 01:11:08.580
general news sites I try and

1046
01:11:09.729 --> 01:11:12.279
discourage general news, but

1047
01:11:12.709 --> 01:11:13.930
that's neither here nor there.

1048
01:11:14.439 --> 01:11:16.879
The other thing I was gonna say is

1049
01:11:17.100 --> 01:11:19.189
for primary sources

1050
01:11:20.779 --> 01:11:23.660
and this comes up very rarely, maybe

1051
01:11:23.810 --> 01:11:25.279
every two years

1052
01:11:26.290 --> 01:11:30.270
in the, except in the case of legal proceedings.

1053
01:11:32.390 --> 01:11:33.439
And this one

1054
01:11:34.640 --> 01:11:38.129
has not been a universal practice but stuff that's come up in

1055
01:11:38.140 --> 01:11:41.819
the last year or two has driven home the value of it because

1056
01:11:47.109 --> 01:11:50.959
legal documents have a heck of a lot of jargon

1057
01:11:50.970 --> 01:11:53.089
and they have a heck of a lot of assumptions

1058
01:11:53.490 --> 01:11:55.270
and a naive nonla

1059
01:11:55.450 --> 01:11:56.569
reading of them

1060
01:11:58.399 --> 01:12:00.689
kind of rounds to worthless.

1061
01:12:02.209 --> 01:12:06.180
And I say that as someone who has worked closely with

1062
01:12:06.330 --> 01:12:08.589
lawyers on different products

1063
01:12:09.689 --> 01:12:12.569
and on contracts for my consulting,

1064
01:12:14.770 --> 01:12:15.629
I learned

1065
01:12:16.640 --> 01:12:19.370
uh many times that my

1066
01:12:19.750 --> 01:12:23.859
non lawyerly understandings of documents were often just

1067
01:12:23.870 --> 01:12:26.660
hilariously wrong because I was missing stuff,

1068
01:12:27.379 --> 01:12:31.569
missing assumptions that they teach in the second year of law school

1069
01:12:31.689 --> 01:12:32.520
or

1070
01:12:33.350 --> 01:12:36.290
missing that something was a particular jargon.

1071
01:12:36.299 --> 01:12:40.839
And so I would interpret a term like reasonable person to just be like, yeah, ok,

1072
01:12:40.850 --> 01:12:42.020
I know what it means to be reasonable.

1073
01:12:42.029 --> 01:12:43.790
It's somebody who's not flying off the handle.

1074
01:12:44.140 --> 01:12:45.799
No, actually, that's a term

1075
01:12:46.089 --> 01:12:50.120
that's a legal standard with like 19 big pieces of case

1076
01:12:50.129 --> 01:12:54.720
law and is a major open doctrine in us legal proceedings.

1077
01:12:58.109 --> 01:12:59.729
So one example of that,

1078
01:13:00.819 --> 01:13:04.240
yeah, I don't think we need to dive into examples and I really don't wanna like

1079
01:13:05.350 --> 01:13:07.879
if you'll pardon the pun litigate those examples.

1080
01:13:20.979 --> 01:13:22.240
And so for

1081
01:13:23.029 --> 01:13:24.490
legal matters,

1082
01:13:25.029 --> 01:13:25.680
um

1083
01:13:27.109 --> 01:13:30.890
we tend to have really pretty good discussions actually when

1084
01:13:31.609 --> 01:13:35.430
we have a lawyer writing for non lawyers. And that's happened with,

1085
01:13:38.720 --> 01:13:43.819
I think the Dino suing Oracle over the Javascript trademark.

1086
01:13:43.830 --> 01:13:45.899
That's just happened in the last week or two.

1087
01:13:46.009 --> 01:13:48.049
And then the other one is um

1088
01:13:48.930 --> 01:13:53.540
there's somebody who writes about software licensing and I'm blanking on his name.

1089
01:13:54.859 --> 01:13:57.229
Is there a blue in his name?

1090
01:14:04.839 --> 01:14:05.740
Bye,

1091
01:14:08.770 --> 01:14:12.149
Ke Mitchell. Yes. J Ivan. That is exactly who I'm thinking of.

1092
01:14:13.899 --> 01:14:14.740
And is that

1093
01:14:14.879 --> 01:14:14.890
a,

1094
01:14:15.299 --> 01:14:17.520
I wanna say he might even be a user on the site?

1095
01:14:18.959 --> 01:14:19.580
Yes.

1096
01:14:22.810 --> 01:14:23.589
Um

1097
01:14:30.399 --> 01:14:31.560
What's his site name?

1098
01:14:34.990 --> 01:14:37.060
Rating dot Ken mitchell.com?

1099
01:14:39.990 --> 01:14:41.529
Not Ken Ke,

1100
01:14:41.870 --> 01:14:46.160
I swear there is someone that had the word blue in the title of their name of their

1101
01:14:51.799 --> 01:14:52.970
Yeah,

1102
01:14:53.350 --> 01:14:55.600
Blue Oak. That's what I'm thinking of.

1103
01:15:02.339 --> 01:15:03.149
That's a lot of

1104
01:15:12.790 --> 01:15:13.810
this might be just

1105
01:15:14.040 --> 01:15:15.930
going back to Ke Mitchell again.

1106
01:15:18.959 --> 01:15:20.540
So this one,

1107
01:15:24.790 --> 01:15:25.419
there's

1108
01:15:25.600 --> 01:15:25.609
a,

1109
01:15:27.709 --> 01:15:30.529
oh, yep, here he is. Here's Ke Mitchell again.

1110
01:15:30.830 --> 01:15:32.319
That's exactly why I was uh

1111
01:15:33.520 --> 01:15:37.540
coming back to it. So, yeah, sorry. This one is writing dot Ke

1112
01:15:37.839 --> 01:15:38.799
michell.com.

1113
01:15:39.950 --> 01:15:41.930
So if we swap that out to say

1114
01:15:45.759 --> 01:15:47.000
these have been

1115
01:15:48.060 --> 01:15:51.500
pretty consistently some of the best writing on

1116
01:15:51.509 --> 01:15:53.779
software licensing that has appeared on the site

1117
01:15:55.049 --> 01:15:56.680
and software licensing is

1118
01:15:57.779 --> 01:16:00.220
pretty hot topic. Like, as you can see, by

1119
01:16:00.470 --> 01:16:04.040
80 47 37 32

1120
01:16:04.419 --> 01:16:08.620
you know, when our median number of comments on stories is like six or seven,

1121
01:16:11.049 --> 01:16:15.509
we tend to have fairly large discussions and even though these are licensing,

1122
01:16:19.220 --> 01:16:22.890
they don't tend to turn into flame wars. I'm not gonna say they haven't,

1123
01:16:23.720 --> 01:16:26.310
I'm not gonna say they haven't gotten contentious because people have a

1124
01:16:26.319 --> 01:16:29.979
lot of strong feelings about licensing and I don't wanna dismiss those.

1125
01:16:31.859 --> 01:16:32.509
But,

1126
01:16:35.200 --> 01:16:35.419
hm

1127
01:16:36.549 --> 01:16:39.569
Kyle Mitchell, there is part of what

1128
01:16:40.009 --> 01:16:41.160
informs

1129
01:16:41.500 --> 01:16:43.430
this opinion of mine that when we get a

1130
01:16:43.439 --> 01:16:46.609
lawyer who is explicitly writing for non lawyers,

1131
01:16:46.620 --> 01:16:49.649
we have our best chances of having a really fruitful discussion.

1132
01:16:50.240 --> 01:16:53.609
And that is always my north star for the site is,

1133
01:16:54.339 --> 01:16:55.419
are we having

1134
01:16:56.899 --> 01:17:00.069
healthy discussions where people are sharing interesting

1135
01:17:00.080 --> 01:17:02.799
things and forming opinions and feel safe asking

1136
01:17:02.810 --> 01:17:05.959
questions and building on one another's knowledge and

1137
01:17:05.970 --> 01:17:08.319
connecting with people who have shared interests.

1138
01:17:08.729 --> 01:17:09.870
When we do that,

1139
01:17:10.680 --> 01:17:11.299
it is

1140
01:17:11.689 --> 01:17:13.580
the best of an online forum.

1141
01:17:13.879 --> 01:17:16.660
It is why running Lobsters is

1142
01:17:16.939 --> 01:17:19.689
so satisfying for me. I love being able to,

1143
01:17:20.899 --> 01:17:25.879
I don't know, be the the party host who helps those discussions happen.

1144
01:17:26.720 --> 01:17:31.180
So that's why I say the primary source except for law because

1145
01:17:32.089 --> 01:17:33.069
as a bunch of,

1146
01:17:33.779 --> 01:17:36.620
you know, programming teaches you to be

1147
01:17:36.850 --> 01:17:39.549
nitpicky and teaches you to

1148
01:17:40.359 --> 01:17:42.819
rely on the written word

1149
01:17:43.549 --> 01:17:44.439
and you kind of

1150
01:17:44.689 --> 01:17:47.930
we drive into the ditch and I, I say this knowing I,

1151
01:17:47.939 --> 01:17:53.450
I drove into the ditch many times trying to discuss legal stuff when

1152
01:17:53.819 --> 01:17:55.930
I just don't have

1153
01:17:56.919 --> 01:17:57.939
the training

1154
01:17:58.310 --> 01:18:00.759
and experience to be able to talk about

1155
01:18:00.979 --> 01:18:01.000
it

1156
01:18:02.040 --> 01:18:05.430
with the confidence that is very tempting just from a

1157
01:18:05.990 --> 01:18:08.040
career spent in programming

1158
01:18:08.759 --> 01:18:11.359
because they're, ah, they're so similar. It's,

1159
01:18:11.720 --> 01:18:12.279
you know,

1160
01:18:13.240 --> 01:18:15.299
it's writing, made real

1161
01:18:15.450 --> 01:18:19.189
writing that changes the world. Ah, that's the whole thing I do as a programmer.

1162
01:18:19.200 --> 01:18:19.540
Right.

1163
01:18:23.770 --> 01:18:25.979
So then this other kind of guideline of

1164
01:18:25.990 --> 01:18:28.259
preferring technical write ups to general news sites,

1165
01:18:28.270 --> 01:18:29.379
that one's pretty obvious.

1166
01:18:44.850 --> 01:18:48.240
The mit license line by line. Which one is this?

1167
01:18:57.919 --> 01:19:00.270
Oh, yeah, this is a great post.

1168
01:19:08.149 --> 01:19:09.169
I have been

1169
01:19:09.919 --> 01:19:11.450
occasionally tempted

1170
01:19:11.830 --> 01:19:12.600
to

1171
01:19:13.589 --> 01:19:15.370
actually go to law school

1172
01:19:15.660 --> 01:19:19.049
for dealing with software licensing and other IP issues.

1173
01:19:20.470 --> 01:19:22.890
Not quite so much. I've actually done it,

1174
01:19:23.129 --> 01:19:26.290
but if there were a remote law school,

1175
01:19:28.149 --> 01:19:30.700
especially one that allowed me to move at my own pace,

1176
01:19:31.509 --> 01:19:33.379
I probably would go do that.

1177
01:19:34.049 --> 01:19:37.439
I've looked a couple of times and they all are very

1178
01:19:37.450 --> 01:19:40.750
oriented around the idea that it is a three year program.

1179
01:19:41.569 --> 01:19:44.140
There are really only a few law schools that

1180
01:19:44.729 --> 01:19:45.709
are not

1181
01:19:46.029 --> 01:19:47.549
full time in person

1182
01:19:47.850 --> 01:19:49.990
or like night school in person.

1183
01:19:51.169 --> 01:19:53.169
And that's really hard to fit into

1184
01:19:54.169 --> 01:19:58.459
being well into another career and not actually wanting to change careers,

1185
01:19:58.470 --> 01:20:00.950
just wanting to have a deep understanding of the topic.

1186
01:20:01.819 --> 01:20:03.959
And the other option would be to uh

1187
01:20:06.430 --> 01:20:09.229
find the curricula for a law school and hire some

1188
01:20:09.240 --> 01:20:11.779
tutors and just do the studying and not the structure.

1189
01:20:11.790 --> 01:20:12.220
But

1190
01:20:13.890 --> 01:20:14.390
I don't know.

1191
01:20:19.020 --> 01:20:19.950
So

1192
01:20:22.029 --> 01:20:24.689
where was, let's grab this link to

1193
01:20:26.089 --> 01:20:27.259
because this is useful.

1194
01:20:35.839 --> 01:20:36.939
What is happening here?

1195
01:20:40.169 --> 01:20:41.509
Clipboard hassles.

1196
01:20:52.310 --> 01:20:54.970
So let's go look at these uh merged stories, right?

1197
01:21:03.279 --> 01:21:05.939
So we'll grab that and then we will say

1198
01:21:09.240 --> 01:21:11.339
what I really would like is,

1199
01:21:11.899 --> 01:21:12.040
yeah,

1200
01:21:12.049 --> 01:21:17.109
I better do it at the console interactively and then I'll dump it to a TSV to look at

1201
01:21:17.580 --> 01:21:21.529
like the other time that we reviewed all the moderation decisions.

1202
01:21:25.229 --> 01:21:27.799
All right. So we want to

1203
01:21:29.189 --> 01:21:30.660
starting from stories.

1204
01:21:31.970 --> 01:21:33.669
Let's select the

1205
01:21:35.970 --> 01:21:40.390
short ID, the title from stories where merged

1206
01:21:40.910 --> 01:21:43.430
stories ID is not known.

1207
01:21:48.810 --> 01:21:52.040
I'm gonna say limit 10 just to make it reasonable.

1208
01:21:56.540 --> 01:21:57.680
Wanted to get wrong here.

1209
01:21:59.450 --> 01:22:00.490
OK. Open the

1210
01:22:03.580 --> 01:22:04.770
wrong console.

1211
01:22:05.169 --> 01:22:06.330
Let's try that again.

1212
01:22:11.560 --> 01:22:13.500
It's merge Story Singular.

1213
01:22:15.700 --> 01:22:17.080
So here are

1214
01:22:19.310 --> 01:22:21.700
offhand. These are probably the 1st 10

1215
01:22:24.029 --> 01:22:24.729
and

1216
01:22:31.799 --> 01:22:32.069
um

1217
01:22:40.310 --> 01:22:40.950
OK,

1218
01:22:41.490 --> 01:22:42.689
so there's the

1219
01:22:45.060 --> 01:22:48.669
merges and that's gonna also include Unm Meges, right?

1220
01:23:01.859 --> 01:23:02.450
That's I

1221
01:23:02.830 --> 01:23:03.870
didn't mean that.

1222
01:23:09.259 --> 01:23:10.520
Oh I see. We uh

1223
01:23:15.069 --> 01:23:16.250
wanted to say there was a,

1224
01:23:16.979 --> 01:23:19.080
now the action column is just the whole thing.

1225
01:23:22.370 --> 01:23:24.390
I keep expecting there to be a verb

1226
01:23:24.930 --> 01:23:27.310
column on the uh moderation,

1227
01:23:28.189 --> 01:23:30.160
but we uh we don't actually have that. All right.

1228
01:23:30.169 --> 01:23:34.680
So we want the ones whose action starts with merged into and that mer

1229
01:23:35.149 --> 01:23:37.029
has been consistent. We've never

1230
01:23:38.180 --> 01:23:39.189
changed that

1231
01:23:40.299 --> 01:23:41.120
description.

1232
01:23:47.240 --> 01:23:49.060
So let's join against.

1233
01:23:57.629 --> 01:24:00.839
It's not story ID, it's stories dot ID

1234
01:24:01.729 --> 01:24:03.830
and I'm just building up a table of

1235
01:24:04.370 --> 01:24:05.709
all the examples

1236
01:24:06.560 --> 01:24:07.990
where merge story is not

1237
01:24:08.209 --> 01:24:08.270
me

1238
01:24:12.819 --> 01:24:13.569
and

1239
01:24:13.689 --> 01:24:15.120
action is like

1240
01:24:15.540 --> 01:24:17.020
merged into.

1241
01:24:22.209 --> 01:24:23.709
I actually wanna see that.

1242
01:24:25.859 --> 01:24:28.069
Uh It's the reason I won.

1243
01:24:29.919 --> 01:24:30.580
There we go.

1244
01:24:33.649 --> 01:24:36.509
First couple not too informative.

1245
01:24:40.649 --> 01:24:41.140
All right.

1246
01:24:48.620 --> 01:24:51.509
Say order by stories ID.

1247
01:24:51.950 --> 01:24:55.470
Desk limit 10 just to look at the most recent 10.

1248
01:24:57.140 --> 01:25:00.430
Yeah, this is stuff I've written as reasons.

1249
01:25:22.100 --> 01:25:24.279
All right. So let's take off the limit

1250
01:25:33.229 --> 01:25:35.240
and then just to count

1251
01:25:35.810 --> 01:25:37.689
and I'm not allowed to sub query like that.

1252
01:25:37.700 --> 01:25:40.589
I just wanted to grab the number of lines real fast.

1253
01:25:40.810 --> 01:25:41.410
That's fine.

1254
01:25:42.410 --> 01:25:42.990
So

1255
01:25:43.490 --> 01:25:44.899
this is my query

1256
01:25:49.569 --> 01:25:53.620
and I already can tell I'm gonna have red line hassles in two seconds, but that's ok.

1257
01:26:01.970 --> 01:26:02.390
Good.

1258
01:26:06.000 --> 01:26:07.839
And we'll dump that into slash

1259
01:26:07.959 --> 01:26:09.250
T MP slash

1260
01:26:10.470 --> 01:26:11.180
merges

1261
01:26:11.810 --> 01:26:13.009
dot TSV.

1262
01:26:14.669 --> 01:26:15.759
Let's look at that.

1263
01:26:19.509 --> 01:26:19.990
All right.

1264
01:26:20.339 --> 01:26:21.569
Looks

1265
01:26:21.689 --> 01:26:22.370
good.

1266
01:26:31.020 --> 01:26:32.870
Almost want to

1267
01:26:33.580 --> 01:26:34.220
sound.

1268
01:26:43.200 --> 01:26:43.799
So

1269
01:26:43.910 --> 01:26:45.140
duplicate links.

1270
01:26:45.350 --> 01:26:49.160
You know, we've already seen it just scroll by a bunch in the last 10.

1271
01:26:49.169 --> 01:26:50.290
That's most of them.

1272
01:26:55.680 --> 01:26:58.939
I know that's a reason. So if I said

1273
01:27:05.029 --> 01:27:07.169
712. Ok.

1274
01:27:09.669 --> 01:27:14.129
Huh. That's actually a pretty big drop from the 777.

1275
01:27:15.879 --> 01:27:20.379
It shouldn't be possible for a story to get merged without a moderation.

1276
01:27:20.390 --> 01:27:21.479
So there shouldn't be

1277
01:27:21.629 --> 01:27:21.640
a

1278
01:27:22.470 --> 01:27:24.490
left out or joint kind of thing, should it?

1279
01:27:24.600 --> 01:27:25.890
It's easy enough to check.

1280
01:27:34.339 --> 01:27:38.120
And I'm into fighting red line, which I really don't enjoy doing.

1281
01:27:52.689 --> 01:27:54.399
Yeah. That's ridiculous. But it worked.

1282
01:27:59.450 --> 01:28:01.600
That's still only 712.

1283
01:28:04.520 --> 01:28:05.060
Hm.

1284
01:28:05.870 --> 01:28:06.520
It's like a

1285
01:28:07.100 --> 01:28:10.270
10% difference between 7, 12 and 777.

1286
01:28:10.700 --> 01:28:12.160
Do you think that's worth investigating?

1287
01:28:28.020 --> 01:28:28.600
Yeah.

1288
01:28:30.370 --> 01:28:31.589
Deleted. I didn't

1289
01:28:33.160 --> 01:28:35.350
in neither query did I,

1290
01:28:36.759 --> 01:28:38.109
well, maybe it is deleted.

1291
01:28:40.520 --> 01:28:42.350
Do you know stories? Just don't

1292
01:28:46.470 --> 01:28:50.250
if a story is merged it's almost never deleted.

1293
01:28:59.129 --> 01:28:59.750
Come here.

1294
01:29:13.490 --> 01:29:16.669
Yeah. There have only been seven of those. So this isn't

1295
01:29:17.080 --> 01:29:17.950
deletion.

1296
01:29:27.810 --> 01:29:31.330
So this gets us 745

1297
01:29:32.109 --> 01:29:34.919
does action like merged into filter down?

1298
01:29:36.330 --> 01:29:37.910
Yes.

1299
01:29:40.310 --> 01:29:43.430
Yeah. You know, I was doing the the left outer join.

1300
01:29:44.430 --> 01:29:46.410
So if I said

1301
01:29:50.100 --> 01:29:53.100
Count Star, this should be the number we already saw.

1302
01:29:54.270 --> 01:29:57.620
Yes. And then if I get rid of the merged into,

1303
01:29:58.520 --> 01:30:00.220
oh, I think I know what this might be.

1304
01:30:01.390 --> 01:30:03.950
Now we get 779. OK. So

1305
01:30:07.669 --> 01:30:08.600
it's Sam

1306
01:30:10.870 --> 01:30:12.129
for a while

1307
01:30:14.189 --> 01:30:16.750
for the longest time story emerging

1308
01:30:18.390 --> 01:30:20.370
was sort of a special

1309
01:30:20.609 --> 01:30:21.799
operation

1310
01:30:22.430 --> 01:30:29.890
and the controller for stories was written so that if the moderator merged a story,

1311
01:30:30.169 --> 01:30:33.319
the other edits on the form were ignored

1312
01:30:35.069 --> 01:30:36.290
and this was

1313
01:30:37.729 --> 01:30:39.310
the source of many hassles.

1314
01:30:40.450 --> 01:30:41.910
So if I said

1315
01:30:42.979 --> 01:30:43.700
select re

1316
01:30:44.890 --> 01:30:45.479
from

1317
01:30:46.509 --> 01:30:48.439
Moderations where

1318
01:30:52.649 --> 01:30:54.000
action like

1319
01:30:55.879 --> 01:30:57.459
merged into

1320
01:30:59.290 --> 01:31:01.740
and action not like

1321
01:31:03.040 --> 01:31:06.500
merged into. And so the net effect of this is

1322
01:31:08.290 --> 01:31:11.839
the action will contain the phrase merged into,

1323
01:31:14.549 --> 01:31:19.080
but it might not be the first thing because the action is generated from

1324
01:31:19.560 --> 01:31:24.399
all of the edits that the moderator makes And so if the moderator edits a title

1325
01:31:24.750 --> 01:31:30.479
and merges, it might say that they updated the title comma merged into blah.

1326
01:31:32.819 --> 01:31:32.839
Uh

1327
01:31:33.160 --> 01:31:34.459
So let's say

1328
01:31:34.759 --> 01:31:36.140
limit 10.

1329
01:31:36.740 --> 01:31:38.200
Yeah, so here's,

1330
01:31:40.490 --> 01:31:43.189
oh no, that's the I wanted the action field,

1331
01:31:45.379 --> 01:31:48.339
but you can see actually me doing it of

1332
01:31:48.939 --> 01:31:50.620
remove story text

1333
01:31:51.299 --> 01:31:52.080
or

1334
01:31:52.629 --> 01:31:55.279
story text is not for summarizing or.

1335
01:31:55.290 --> 01:31:58.990
So this is me changing the title or changing the story text as well.

1336
01:32:01.609 --> 01:32:05.029
Yeah. So these are changed description from

1337
01:32:06.140 --> 01:32:06.839
and then

1338
01:32:07.229 --> 01:32:08.759
where is it out at the end?

1339
01:32:10.060 --> 01:32:11.200
Yeah, two,

1340
01:32:11.209 --> 01:32:15.680
no description changed markdown description because it's so redundant and then

1341
01:32:15.950 --> 01:32:20.290
comma merged into art. So it's just the potential for it to be.

1342
01:32:20.600 --> 01:32:22.459
So if we said count Star

1343
01:32:24.140 --> 01:32:25.200
and get rid of the limit,

1344
01:32:27.450 --> 01:32:30.990
it's only 34 out of the,

1345
01:32:32.029 --> 01:32:33.919
what was that? About 60.

1346
01:32:34.850 --> 01:32:36.640
So there's half of our story

1347
01:32:52.770 --> 01:32:53.200
Castro

1348
01:32:53.569 --> 01:32:55.160
Moderations.

1349
01:33:09.629 --> 01:33:11.049
So if we change this

1350
01:33:11.799 --> 01:33:12.779
to say

1351
01:33:15.040 --> 01:33:17.520
action like merge into the start

1352
01:33:18.490 --> 01:33:19.189
or

1353
01:33:19.350 --> 01:33:21.009
action like

1354
01:33:21.370 --> 01:33:22.830
percent comma

1355
01:33:23.640 --> 01:33:25.149
merged into

1356
01:33:26.140 --> 01:33:26.950
percent

1357
01:33:30.879 --> 01:33:33.299
that gets us up to 744

1358
01:33:40.080 --> 01:33:40.089
I

1359
01:33:40.270 --> 01:33:41.779
see even there, there's like

1360
01:33:41.950 --> 01:33:41.959
a

1361
01:33:43.330 --> 01:33:44.270
half by one

1362
01:33:45.020 --> 01:33:49.430
cause it was 7-Eleven plus 34 and we ended up with 744

1363
01:33:50.189 --> 01:33:53.500
like I'm not gonna track down the last 7% but I feel like we're

1364
01:33:53.509 --> 01:33:57.649
or the last 1% but I feel like 5% is maybe worth it.

1365
01:34:03.850 --> 01:34:05.089
Let's take a look at these.

1366
01:34:14.600 --> 01:34:21.120
The only way I can think of to diagnose this is to do just a big giant joint of

1367
01:34:22.299 --> 01:34:25.160
find me everything in the first query. That's not in the second one.

1368
01:34:35.149 --> 01:34:37.049
Um stories where merge

1369
01:34:37.569 --> 01:34:40.029
merge story ID

1370
01:34:40.319 --> 01:34:41.799
is not, no,

1371
01:34:42.330 --> 01:34:44.209
not, no. And

1372
01:34:46.740 --> 01:34:48.160
sport ID

1373
01:34:49.029 --> 01:34:50.359
is not in

1374
01:34:51.419 --> 01:34:52.959
select short id

1375
01:34:54.560 --> 01:34:55.279
dot dot dot

1376
01:34:57.279 --> 01:34:58.220
And then

1377
01:34:59.500 --> 01:35:00.410
thanks red line.

1378
01:35:00.750 --> 01:35:01.959
All right. So here's

1379
01:35:02.720 --> 01:35:03.529
a handful.

1380
01:35:05.540 --> 01:35:06.959
I'm going to

1381
01:35:08.240 --> 01:35:10.589
grab this short ID and open it

1382
01:35:10.689 --> 01:35:13.000
off screen so I can just

1383
01:35:13.339 --> 01:35:15.339
do it as a logged in moderator

1384
01:35:17.270 --> 01:35:19.589
because maybe there's something weird here.

1385
01:35:23.129 --> 01:35:24.450
So yeah, this one

1386
01:35:24.740 --> 01:35:26.169
was indeed merged

1387
01:35:26.649 --> 01:35:28.029
and it was just a um

1388
01:35:29.580 --> 01:35:31.029
some kind of alternate link

1389
01:35:31.660 --> 01:35:33.040
or somebody wrote it up.

1390
01:35:44.270 --> 01:35:45.209
So how is there?

1391
01:35:46.089 --> 01:35:46.529
Let's,

1392
01:36:20.259 --> 01:36:20.939
so there

1393
01:36:21.149 --> 01:36:22.660
is a moderation

1394
01:36:31.479 --> 01:36:32.919
and it's a dupe

1395
01:36:37.649 --> 01:36:40.330
like I noticed this, this title here

1396
01:36:40.720 --> 01:36:41.500
matches

1397
01:36:42.220 --> 01:36:42.879
this.

1398
01:36:44.750 --> 01:36:45.779
So

1399
01:36:49.040 --> 01:36:51.609
did we just get this one, URL

1400
01:36:52.529 --> 01:36:53.990
submitted multiple times?

1401
01:36:54.000 --> 01:36:57.990
Cause that actually does happen fairly often with merged stories where

1402
01:37:00.209 --> 01:37:01.390
either the,

1403
01:37:01.979 --> 01:37:04.180
the dupe detector doesn't fire

1404
01:37:05.160 --> 01:37:08.810
because there's some slight difference that it didn't normalize away

1405
01:37:09.740 --> 01:37:11.959
or something else happened. And so then there's

1406
01:37:13.120 --> 01:37:14.390
duplicate for dinner.

1407
01:37:15.520 --> 01:37:18.080
The action here is that I deleted the story.

1408
01:37:25.729 --> 01:37:27.529
This must be the um

1409
01:37:33.569 --> 01:37:35.740
this must be that hassle with

1410
01:37:36.370 --> 01:37:38.859
if you change the merge ID stuff doesn't

1411
01:37:39.500 --> 01:37:41.720
change. There was another one where

1412
01:37:42.520 --> 01:37:47.060
if I click delete on a story, it wouldn't just set deleted.

1413
01:37:47.069 --> 01:37:49.379
A it would throw away the other edits in the tab.

1414
01:37:50.759 --> 01:37:53.259
So that might be these other

1415
01:37:53.779 --> 01:37:55.129
what? 30?

1416
01:38:03.500 --> 01:38:06.350
It's weird that there's a moderation for

1417
01:38:07.649 --> 01:38:11.169
un deleting this story, but not for deleting this story.

1418
01:38:38.339 --> 01:38:40.270
Ok. So it was only submitted once

1419
01:38:45.379 --> 01:38:46.899
if I would by idea.

1420
01:38:58.450 --> 01:39:01.180
Yeah, there's an un delete, but nothing else.

1421
01:39:05.129 --> 01:39:06.540
Now, how is that possible?

1422
01:39:07.649 --> 01:39:09.990
It's possible the original submitter

1423
01:39:12.339 --> 01:39:13.479
removed it.

1424
01:39:13.740 --> 01:39:14.240
Right.

1425
01:39:15.919 --> 01:39:16.959
Yes,

1426
01:39:17.200 --> 01:39:17.970
actually,

1427
01:39:20.240 --> 01:39:22.419
and this story was posted

1428
01:39:22.899 --> 01:39:25.089
seven years ago. I am

1429
01:39:25.459 --> 01:39:27.100
sure not gonna remember that.

1430
01:39:29.540 --> 01:39:30.330
Let's look at

1431
01:39:30.439 --> 01:39:30.450
a

1432
01:39:30.709 --> 01:39:31.799
newer one.

1433
01:39:42.919 --> 01:39:43.870
So we've got

1434
01:39:45.529 --> 01:39:48.029
HTSSPG.

1435
01:39:57.140 --> 01:39:59.240
So this is a story about

1436
01:40:02.240 --> 01:40:03.089
ah some kind.

1437
01:40:04.600 --> 01:40:05.399
Yeah, I think,

1438
01:40:09.229 --> 01:40:10.390
and if I said,

1439
01:40:16.160 --> 01:40:19.109
let's find all the Moderations related to it,

1440
01:40:27.939 --> 01:40:28.470
that's

1441
01:40:35.350 --> 01:40:37.350
so this was a year ago.

1442
01:40:37.810 --> 01:40:42.870
This is weird. It shouldn't be possible for this story to have

1443
01:40:43.229 --> 01:40:45.490
the merge story ID set

1444
01:40:46.939 --> 01:40:48.069
without there being,

1445
01:40:51.080 --> 01:40:54.379
without there being a moderation to match.

1446
01:40:54.669 --> 01:40:55.830
You know, I look at

1447
01:40:55.979 --> 01:40:57.359
it. Um I've got

1448
01:40:57.490 --> 01:40:57.509
it

1449
01:40:58.060 --> 01:40:58.529
come here.

1450
01:41:02.740 --> 01:41:04.100
There's something else that pops out.

1451
01:41:06.689 --> 01:41:08.430
I'm gonna bring it up here. So

1452
01:41:09.240 --> 01:41:11.520
this story, nothing too exciting.

1453
01:41:11.529 --> 01:41:14.939
You know, something about compression and text classification.

1454
01:41:16.080 --> 01:41:20.419
Something that catches my eye is that Hunter merged this

1455
01:41:20.930 --> 01:41:22.379
or Hunter submitted

1456
01:41:23.160 --> 01:41:23.459
the

1457
01:41:24.379 --> 01:41:25.700
second link

1458
01:41:25.910 --> 01:41:27.899
and Hunter is a site moderator

1459
01:41:28.830 --> 01:41:29.649
and

1460
01:41:30.399 --> 01:41:33.759
the story form is weird about moderators.

1461
01:41:38.779 --> 01:41:41.049
So let's grab these submitter names.

1462
01:41:46.089 --> 01:41:47.609
Um Stories

1463
01:41:47.870 --> 01:41:50.870
cause if these are all moderators that would explain it

1464
01:41:51.200 --> 01:41:52.549
the story form.

1465
01:41:56.129 --> 01:41:57.229
Yeah, it's all,

1466
01:41:57.689 --> 01:42:02.129
it's all callbacks, it's active record callbacks and I've hated this bug

1467
01:42:02.419 --> 01:42:04.870
and it bit me even two weeks ago.

1468
01:42:05.270 --> 01:42:07.029
Join users

1469
01:42:08.810 --> 01:42:09.479
on

1470
01:42:09.669 --> 01:42:11.990
stories dot user ID

1471
01:42:13.930 --> 01:42:16.240
equals users dot id.

1472
01:42:17.649 --> 01:42:19.209
Let's get rid of this

1473
01:42:19.479 --> 01:42:22.339
desk or limit 10 because we've only got 30.

1474
01:42:27.520 --> 01:42:28.529
Ok. So

1475
01:42:29.479 --> 01:42:32.459
all, but three of these are site moderators.

1476
01:42:33.000 --> 01:42:35.100
So what's happened here is

1477
01:42:37.029 --> 01:42:38.209
I hate this bug.

1478
01:42:38.910 --> 01:42:40.799
I don't think it's even in the issue tracker,

1479
01:42:41.910 --> 01:42:43.560
although I know which bug it goes on.

1480
01:42:44.540 --> 01:42:45.250
So,

1481
01:42:49.759 --> 01:42:50.810
where am I here?

1482
01:42:51.580 --> 01:42:52.319
Um

1483
01:42:56.419 --> 01:42:59.930
We've talked about how the story's controller is overloaded and does a lot of stuff.

1484
01:43:00.919 --> 01:43:02.270
Well, there is one

1485
01:43:02.560 --> 01:43:03.560
edit form

1486
01:43:05.089 --> 01:43:05.799
if

1487
01:43:06.569 --> 01:43:08.669
and when you host to it,

1488
01:43:10.379 --> 01:43:12.640
um you get the form and then

1489
01:43:14.370 --> 01:43:17.279
when you submit the form, it calls the update method.

1490
01:43:18.700 --> 01:43:20.290
When you call the update method,

1491
01:43:23.350 --> 01:43:26.209
it checks if you're allowed to edit it, which is to say,

1492
01:43:26.509 --> 01:43:30.049
are you the person who submitted it and it's only a few hours old

1493
01:43:30.370 --> 01:43:32.089
or are you a moderator?

1494
01:43:32.740 --> 01:43:35.200
And then it sets this virtual attribute

1495
01:43:36.200 --> 01:43:37.279
story editor.

1496
01:43:38.680 --> 01:43:42.459
And the thing that's missing here is boy, where does the moderation get created?

1497
01:43:45.569 --> 01:43:47.379
Well, it's not in the controller

1498
01:43:49.310 --> 01:43:49.939
uh mo

1499
01:43:50.419 --> 01:43:51.129
story

1500
01:43:53.000 --> 01:43:53.870
instead

1501
01:43:55.930 --> 01:43:59.060
before save the log moderation hook calls.

1502
01:44:00.700 --> 01:44:02.580
And the moderation hook says

1503
01:44:05.319 --> 01:44:06.959
if this is a new record,

1504
01:44:07.529 --> 01:44:09.410
well, if this is a brand new record,

1505
01:44:10.290 --> 01:44:12.870
we don't have to log in moderation because it hasn't been persisted.

1506
01:44:14.470 --> 01:44:15.060
And

1507
01:44:15.709 --> 01:44:18.089
if you are not editing from suggestions

1508
01:44:20.459 --> 01:44:21.200
or

1509
01:44:21.569 --> 01:44:23.080
you are the submitter,

1510
01:44:24.330 --> 01:44:28.240
oh, you are editing your own story. And so the concept of

1511
01:44:28.540 --> 01:44:29.189
is a

1512
01:44:29.339 --> 01:44:31.200
moderator editing, this

1513
01:44:31.890 --> 01:44:33.560
is implicit

1514
01:44:33.759 --> 01:44:37.169
in the false path through this giant

1515
01:44:37.290 --> 01:44:37.689
bullion.

1516
01:44:38.720 --> 01:44:40.919
And so what the short version is

1517
01:44:41.350 --> 01:44:46.660
when a moderator edits their own story, it doesn't create entries in the mod log.

1518
01:44:47.180 --> 01:44:48.060
And so

1519
01:44:49.390 --> 01:44:52.140
the other unmarked stories there

1520
01:44:54.060 --> 01:44:54.830
r

1521
01:44:58.669 --> 01:45:01.750
the ones where a moderator submitted a story

1522
01:45:02.080 --> 01:45:07.370
and realized it was a should be merged into a story that was already submitted

1523
01:45:07.649 --> 01:45:09.250
and did so themselves.

1524
01:45:11.029 --> 01:45:11.129
Oh

1525
01:45:16.109 --> 01:45:17.410
So that's the bug factory.

1526
01:45:19.890 --> 01:45:20.779
But this one,

1527
01:45:23.640 --> 01:45:24.979
this one has the

1528
01:45:25.220 --> 01:45:26.419
uh the different fix.

1529
01:45:29.850 --> 01:45:34.879
The different fix for this one is splitting up the story controller functionality

1530
01:45:35.279 --> 01:45:37.419
because the story controllers

1531
01:45:38.250 --> 01:45:39.350
form

1532
01:45:39.689 --> 01:45:44.029
handles both users editing their own stories and moderators who have

1533
01:45:44.040 --> 01:45:46.069
different permissions and different things they're

1534
01:45:46.080 --> 01:45:47.830
allowed to do and different timing

1535
01:45:48.479 --> 01:45:49.200
and then

1536
01:45:49.540 --> 01:45:51.299
the moderation logging

1537
01:45:51.540 --> 01:45:55.419
happens after in a callback. So let's just note that

1538
01:46:15.390 --> 01:46:17.299
moderator edits plural.

1539
01:46:17.970 --> 01:46:20.629
It's harder for me to type because they can't just curl up in my lap.

1540
01:47:22.490 --> 01:47:23.140
All right.

1541
01:47:25.009 --> 01:47:25.870
So

1542
01:47:26.390 --> 01:47:28.129
with that bug run down,

1543
01:47:29.120 --> 01:47:29.140
I

1544
01:47:29.290 --> 01:47:31.790
think we're good to go ahead with

1545
01:47:32.770 --> 01:47:33.720
the TSV.

1546
01:47:39.799 --> 01:47:41.060
We wanna say,

1547
01:47:43.120 --> 01:47:45.359
oh, red lying. Why are you doing this to me?

1548
01:47:46.419 --> 01:47:48.100
We wanna say like

1549
01:47:48.410 --> 01:47:49.240
this

1550
01:47:58.750 --> 01:48:01.310
to catch the ones where it's not

1551
01:48:01.879 --> 01:48:02.879
the first thing

1552
01:48:03.859 --> 01:48:07.640
and then I need to write parenthesis, some unknown number of characters.

1553
01:48:21.259 --> 01:48:23.259
Oh Looks like I got it in the right place, right?

1554
01:48:27.200 --> 01:48:28.450
All I did was uh

1555
01:48:30.209 --> 01:48:31.529
hit right there. I was like

1556
01:48:31.859 --> 01:48:36.299
spelled this out. So it was like 61411, you know.

1557
01:48:37.850 --> 01:48:38.470
OK.

1558
01:48:38.810 --> 01:48:40.950
And then how many lines are in this

1559
01:48:44.109 --> 01:48:46.799
still only 712

1560
01:48:48.470 --> 01:48:49.779
that should have gone up to

1561
01:48:50.399 --> 01:48:51.759
like 740

1562
01:48:55.950 --> 01:48:56.529
oh,

1563
01:48:56.839 --> 01:48:58.290
because I missed the closing

1564
01:49:00.009 --> 01:49:00.850
percent.

1565
01:49:05.939 --> 01:49:07.479
Now we got 745

1566
01:49:08.600 --> 01:49:09.209
and

1567
01:49:10.560 --> 01:49:14.250
the reason it's 745 instead of 744 is

1568
01:49:15.620 --> 01:49:18.759
it has a header line. So there's that off by one error

1569
01:49:20.169 --> 01:49:23.169
and then the rest of these are gonna be moderators doing things.

1570
01:49:25.450 --> 01:49:25.939
So

1571
01:49:27.200 --> 01:49:29.660
I feel pretty good that we've got something accurate

1572
01:49:35.740 --> 01:49:36.120
you want?

1573
01:49:36.649 --> 01:49:37.700
Let's grab that

1574
01:49:43.549 --> 01:49:45.490
and I'm gonna fire up

1575
01:49:46.290 --> 01:49:47.770
Libre office.

1576
01:49:48.040 --> 01:49:51.109
So we're about to switch from dark mode to light mode.

1577
01:50:00.560 --> 01:50:05.129
I'm gonna open this off stream because I'm gonna have to like browse files and stuff.

1578
01:50:07.350 --> 01:50:08.259
So that's

1579
01:50:08.850 --> 01:50:09.169
code

1580
01:50:09.459 --> 01:50:10.540
lobsters

1581
01:50:10.709 --> 01:50:12.560
merges dot TSV.

1582
01:50:13.580 --> 01:50:14.089
Good.

1583
01:50:14.700 --> 01:50:16.950
So here's the dialogue.

1584
01:50:17.939 --> 01:50:20.399
So we have the short ID, the title

1585
01:50:22.490 --> 01:50:25.750
and the merging response. So this all looks pretty reasonable

1586
01:50:26.779 --> 01:50:27.750
and hit, ok,

1587
01:50:28.450 --> 01:50:29.259
and

1588
01:50:30.339 --> 01:50:31.680
bring this back on stream.

1589
01:50:36.310 --> 01:50:37.609
All right. So

1590
01:50:37.970 --> 01:50:41.490
this clearly there was some long ass reason on something.

1591
01:50:42.290 --> 01:50:45.069
I'm gonna shrink that down so we can fit on screen.

1592
01:50:46.529 --> 01:50:49.390
Uh If folks want to tell me how the font size is.

1593
01:50:50.569 --> 01:50:52.509
Uh gy, yeah, I know

1594
01:50:53.029 --> 01:50:55.109
I could probably use um

1595
01:50:56.319 --> 01:50:57.459
what's the name

1596
01:50:57.709 --> 01:51:00.339
like visit data or data set. But

1597
01:51:01.370 --> 01:51:04.290
as neat as I think those things are, I don't

1598
01:51:04.790 --> 01:51:08.049
actually have them installed and know how to use them.

1599
01:51:09.209 --> 01:51:10.830
Font is a little small, but it's fine.

1600
01:51:10.839 --> 01:51:14.990
I'll, I'll nudge up a little bit and we'll just kind of chop more off of this

1601
01:51:17.359 --> 01:51:18.229
and

1602
01:51:18.620 --> 01:51:19.350
this.

1603
01:51:22.620 --> 01:51:23.009
Correct.

1604
01:51:24.209 --> 01:51:25.620
So here

1605
01:51:28.770 --> 01:51:31.100
there's a quick way to say

1606
01:51:34.490 --> 01:51:36.759
I don't want the text to overhang.

1607
01:51:38.629 --> 01:51:39.729
I don't want to rap.

1608
01:51:47.240 --> 01:51:51.390
Just I see that there's like this one is overhanging into here

1609
01:51:51.629 --> 01:51:55.600
and I want to hide that because I know it's

1610
01:51:55.770 --> 01:51:58.379
when I skim it's gonna be hard to see.

1611
01:52:03.939 --> 01:52:05.009
What's the view.

1612
01:52:14.129 --> 01:52:16.310
There's something. All right. Well,

1613
01:52:24.669 --> 01:52:26.209
form out these cells

1614
01:52:27.160 --> 01:52:28.169
and I say,

1615
01:52:32.740 --> 01:52:33.859
yeah, not that one.

1616
01:52:35.430 --> 01:52:36.330
It's a rap.

1617
01:52:37.870 --> 01:52:40.129
It's weird. The moderation is create as back in the storm.

1618
01:52:42.520 --> 01:52:43.490
Yeah. Drag it

1619
01:52:43.870 --> 01:52:49.009
is. Um, it is just one of those slightly hairy places where

1620
01:52:50.399 --> 01:52:55.299
it is some of the first functionality written in the code base

1621
01:52:55.669 --> 01:52:58.229
by someone who wasn't very familiar with rails

1622
01:52:58.640 --> 01:52:59.350
and

1623
01:53:00.100 --> 01:53:02.279
it wasn't as clear as,

1624
01:53:07.689 --> 01:53:10.569
yeah, that's fine. We got a couple extra lines, but

1625
01:53:18.339 --> 01:53:19.319
all right. So

1626
01:53:24.479 --> 01:53:26.500
now what I would love is

1627
01:53:28.660 --> 01:53:29.379
if

1628
01:53:31.390 --> 01:53:36.839
it was possible to do a multi cursor thing and select every line that included

1629
01:53:37.410 --> 01:53:39.240
like merging response

1630
01:53:44.299 --> 01:53:45.859
as far as I know,

1631
01:53:46.069 --> 01:53:47.910
I can't actually do that.

1632
01:53:50.790 --> 01:53:52.040
And I try and be

1633
01:53:52.430 --> 01:53:54.660
really consistent in these messages.

1634
01:53:54.930 --> 01:53:58.669
Uh I wasn't super consistent at first but then

1635
01:53:58.970 --> 01:54:04.910
sort of built out a set of standard messages and I have Firefox set to remember the uh

1636
01:54:05.709 --> 01:54:07.649
form, input on the story form.

1637
01:54:08.660 --> 01:54:09.879
So those are uh

1638
01:54:12.250 --> 01:54:14.680
pretty repetitive, which I think helps.

1639
01:54:15.740 --> 01:54:18.200
So if I said merging write out,

1640
01:54:25.330 --> 01:54:25.870
yeah,

1641
01:54:26.589 --> 01:54:27.859
honestly, I could do this and be

1642
01:54:27.979 --> 01:54:28.970
easier couldn't I

1643
01:54:31.720 --> 01:54:33.370
for some of these? All right. Hold on.

1644
01:54:37.259 --> 01:54:40.770
Oh, don't open a new one. Let's just add a tab.

1645
01:54:43.790 --> 01:54:46.520
And so for everything that says uh

1646
01:54:51.609 --> 01:54:55.709
so what's a, what are useful categories? MX Butterfly?

1647
01:54:56.479 --> 01:54:57.520
Yeah, I don't know that one.

1648
01:54:58.169 --> 01:54:59.990
Not an emacs guy never have been.

1649
01:55:04.859 --> 01:55:07.149
So there are 99 of those.

1650
01:55:24.259 --> 01:55:25.689
Yeah. Don't need two there.

1651
01:55:35.870 --> 01:55:37.569
And if there are 99

1652
01:55:38.200 --> 01:55:41.509
it's just easier to do it by hand than write the macro

1653
01:55:44.609 --> 01:55:47.129
and also give me a chance to kind of skim some of these others.

1654
01:56:04.020 --> 01:56:04.640
Ok.

1655
01:56:09.229 --> 01:56:13.580
So the other one is very clearly merging reply

1656
01:56:13.859 --> 01:56:15.069
because I've done that a bunch.

1657
01:56:25.379 --> 01:56:27.600
It hopes if I spell things right though,

1658
01:56:31.029 --> 01:56:31.169
where

1659
01:56:31.290 --> 01:56:32.060
spots

1660
01:56:34.779 --> 01:56:36.359
only five of those

1661
01:56:39.370 --> 01:56:41.109
anybody else. Um

1662
01:56:42.319 --> 01:56:44.250
So this idea of

1663
01:56:44.799 --> 01:56:45.899
dupes,

1664
01:56:49.970 --> 01:56:51.169
how many of these,

1665
01:56:51.310 --> 01:56:53.379
we have 62 dupes? All right.

1666
01:56:56.970 --> 01:57:00.479
And I'm gonna do another search in a second for the word duplicate

1667
01:57:00.939 --> 01:57:02.549
because there surely will be some

1668
01:57:09.109 --> 01:57:13.049
and just hitting these, these most popular ones real fast in vim,

1669
01:57:13.529 --> 01:57:16.799
it's easier than churning through them in the Libre office because we have,

1670
01:57:16.810 --> 01:57:19.799
you know, 740 some rather than, uh,

1671
01:57:20.080 --> 01:57:22.729
like the last time I categorized stuff where it was

1672
01:57:23.060 --> 01:57:25.209
100 or something and we didn't actually

1673
01:57:25.569 --> 01:57:27.250
need to use all of them.

1674
01:57:30.270 --> 01:57:31.560
Oh, no, it's saying

1675
01:57:32.149 --> 01:57:35.810
more than 99. 0, no. So I actually

1676
01:57:38.299 --> 01:57:39.549
maybe should have.

1677
01:57:40.750 --> 01:57:43.850
What line are we on? 621? All right, we'll get in the home stretch,

1678
01:57:44.470 --> 01:57:46.609
but there may be responses that I missed.

1679
01:57:49.339 --> 01:57:50.459
All right. So

1680
01:57:51.350 --> 01:57:52.890
where was that last search?

1681
01:57:54.319 --> 01:57:57.359
So, if I went down and searched up, yeah, here's a couple.

1682
01:58:22.810 --> 01:58:23.470
Come on.

1683
01:58:28.339 --> 01:58:29.600
You just rapping on me.

1684
01:58:32.549 --> 01:58:33.169
Thank you.

1685
01:59:12.740 --> 01:59:14.419
Go ahead. Cat. Make yourself at home.

1686
01:59:14.560 --> 01:59:15.609
Knock my stuff down.

1687
01:59:32.540 --> 01:59:33.799
How are there so many?

1688
01:59:38.310 --> 01:59:40.350
Oh, I'm only at line 400. That's how,

1689
01:59:42.970 --> 01:59:45.229
so lots of responses.

1690
02:00:04.000 --> 02:00:06.220
Oh, there we go. There's my limit. So

1691
02:00:08.640 --> 02:00:10.979
the other one I know I've used a few times,

1692
02:00:11.729 --> 02:00:13.589
especially if I'm grumpy and I'm expecting that

1693
02:00:13.600 --> 02:00:15.939
I'm gonna be cleaning up after nonsense.

1694
02:00:16.850 --> 02:00:19.870
Is I have sometimes said merging Hot take

1695
02:00:21.390 --> 02:00:25.209
and I am gonna go ahead and categorize them as responses

1696
02:00:26.649 --> 02:00:27.790
because

1697
02:00:31.520 --> 02:00:34.200
they are. I was just grumpy about them

1698
02:00:34.540 --> 02:00:36.580
and feeling a little spicy myself.

1699
02:00:39.180 --> 02:00:40.049
The, uh,

1700
02:00:41.319 --> 02:00:43.439
hot takes rarely add

1701
02:00:44.220 --> 02:00:46.520
much two stories.

1702
02:00:47.100 --> 02:00:48.049
This is a

1703
02:00:49.270 --> 02:00:51.640
sort of a personal opinion more than a, uh,

1704
02:00:52.169 --> 02:00:54.620
professional opinion. Oh, that's interesting.

1705
02:00:54.629 --> 02:00:57.229
This one is both a dupe and a roundup.

1706
02:00:58.200 --> 02:00:59.419
I am just,

1707
02:00:59.879 --> 02:01:03.930
it's a hot take and a dupe and around all. I'm just gonna leave that one as dupe.

1708
02:01:07.169 --> 02:01:07.540
Yeah.

1709
02:01:11.919 --> 02:01:13.020
Oh, this one,

1710
02:01:14.750 --> 02:01:16.569
this one is me correcting an error,

1711
02:01:24.959 --> 02:01:25.470
which

1712
02:01:28.370 --> 02:01:31.229
is going to be a response to this one.

1713
02:01:33.600 --> 02:01:36.709
Let's check. One of these is just gonna be a moderator error.

1714
02:01:42.180 --> 02:01:42.939
I'm pulling up

1715
02:01:43.930 --> 02:01:44.790
that ID.

1716
02:01:47.259 --> 02:01:48.680
Yeah. So this is a,

1717
02:01:51.819 --> 02:01:53.359
this story

1718
02:01:53.569 --> 02:01:56.350
being angry at Chromium. So this one,

1719
02:02:00.009 --> 02:02:03.470
wait, no more Google that one. Is a response.

1720
02:02:06.330 --> 02:02:07.830
Tom is a ***.

1721
02:02:23.080 --> 02:02:23.580
All right.

1722
02:02:23.939 --> 02:02:25.560
So, somewhere there is a,

1723
02:02:28.879 --> 02:02:29.339
and I,

1724
02:02:30.240 --> 02:02:33.450
it's not so many that I want to

1725
02:02:34.479 --> 02:02:36.140
break them out into

1726
02:02:44.430 --> 02:02:46.000
their own section. So

1727
02:02:51.189 --> 02:02:52.439
let's find the rest.

1728
02:02:58.759 --> 02:02:59.879
738.

1729
02:03:00.790 --> 02:03:01.450
Ok.

1730
02:03:08.629 --> 02:03:11.970
So another thing that's pretty common here is

1731
02:03:12.750 --> 02:03:14.669
if something is a write up,

1732
02:03:14.680 --> 02:03:19.330
so we got 30 of those and sometimes I call that an alternate link,

1733
02:03:20.279 --> 02:03:20.899
I guess.

1734
02:03:22.930 --> 02:03:23.919
So that's,

1735
02:03:25.709 --> 02:03:31.830
those are especially common on security stories like this open W RT.

1736
02:03:32.450 --> 02:03:33.169
So

1737
02:03:33.540 --> 02:03:35.279
the write up is

1738
02:03:36.040 --> 02:03:39.370
some sort of technical news site wrote about it.

1739
02:03:39.930 --> 02:03:43.140
But we also had submitted the original

1740
02:03:44.069 --> 02:03:47.370
link of the security researcher,

1741
02:03:51.609 --> 02:03:52.819
an alternate la

1742
02:03:57.040 --> 02:03:58.669
alternate. Well, actually,

1743
02:03:58.979 --> 02:03:59.509
yeah,

1744
02:04:00.870 --> 02:04:01.990
there is a distinction.

1745
02:04:02.310 --> 02:04:03.060
So

1746
02:04:03.470 --> 02:04:03.479
a

1747
02:04:03.660 --> 02:04:07.419
write up is third party and an alternate link is first party.

1748
02:04:07.430 --> 02:04:09.299
And the thing that pops out at me is um

1749
02:04:10.020 --> 02:04:12.859
Tickle TK nine. I don't even have to pull up this story.

1750
02:04:12.870 --> 02:04:15.270
I remember someone submitted like the uh

1751
02:04:16.580 --> 02:04:16.959
the github

1752
02:04:17.129 --> 02:04:20.879
releases page and then also their blog post where it was like

1753
02:04:21.060 --> 02:04:23.879
the blog post and the download page, something like that.

1754
02:04:24.029 --> 02:04:25.790
So that's when I use the phrase

1755
02:04:25.930 --> 02:04:27.149
alternate link.

1756
02:04:28.950 --> 02:04:31.169
And I guess if we're being

1757
02:04:31.430 --> 02:04:33.810
fair to the criticism that

1758
02:04:34.569 --> 02:04:39.109
story merging is confusing, I should split out those

1759
02:04:39.930 --> 02:04:42.589
primaries versus third party.

1760
02:04:43.520 --> 02:04:45.290
So what do we want to call those?

1761
02:04:46.370 --> 02:04:47.069
The

1762
02:04:49.729 --> 02:04:51.390
write up would be,

1763
02:04:53.799 --> 02:04:57.620
it's not a third party response. We'll just call it right up,

1764
02:04:58.359 --> 02:04:58.819
right.

1765
02:05:12.750 --> 02:05:16.330
I think you've put response or dupes on new lines a few times or maybe wrapping,

1766
02:05:16.339 --> 02:05:18.009
it's mostly wrapping.

1767
02:05:18.020 --> 02:05:22.549
But those will stand out pretty clear once I pull it back into Libre office.

1768
02:05:22.560 --> 02:05:24.470
So I'm not too worried about it.

1769
02:05:33.529 --> 02:05:35.750
There's also the possibility of accidentally

1770
02:05:36.939 --> 02:05:39.640
put two categories on something because I've moved

1771
02:05:39.649 --> 02:05:41.839
real fast on some of these text edits.

1772
02:05:41.850 --> 02:05:43.620
And again, that's gonna stand out

1773
02:05:44.060 --> 02:05:46.609
in Libre Office. So I'm not too concerned about it.

1774
02:05:53.970 --> 02:05:57.060
So for alternate links, I'm just gonna say

1775
02:05:57.870 --> 02:05:58.700
alternate

1776
02:05:58.899 --> 02:06:00.209
and we're gonna remember

1777
02:06:02.009 --> 02:06:03.620
that that means

1778
02:06:04.109 --> 02:06:06.180
it's from the same source

1779
02:06:07.879 --> 02:06:12.669
and I'm gonna pull all of these unique reasons into the

1780
02:06:15.020 --> 02:06:16.919
scratch file or into the

1781
02:06:17.660 --> 02:06:18.520
the draught

1782
02:06:19.750 --> 02:06:20.609
to

1783
02:06:20.750 --> 02:06:21.569
explain.

1784
02:06:30.240 --> 02:06:32.580
Um It looks like a reply.

1785
02:06:35.350 --> 02:06:36.379
Just one of those.

1786
02:06:41.100 --> 02:06:41.629
All right.

1787
02:06:41.950 --> 02:06:44.240
So I think that might be enough.

1788
02:06:44.970 --> 02:06:45.759
Oh Yeah,

1789
02:06:46.379 --> 02:06:47.790
into primary.

1790
02:06:51.319 --> 02:06:54.609
How many mobile links do we have? None? So this one's just a dupe link.

1791
02:06:54.620 --> 02:06:55.580
I remember this one

1792
02:06:56.029 --> 02:06:56.899
where

1793
02:06:57.350 --> 02:07:01.060
the site has a like m.whatever.com

1794
02:07:01.569 --> 02:07:05.410
or you know, question mobile equals one. And then it just provides a different

1795
02:07:05.620 --> 02:07:06.330
view.

1796
02:07:10.220 --> 02:07:10.759
Then

1797
02:07:13.540 --> 02:07:15.750
some of these are,

1798
02:07:18.479 --> 02:07:20.250
these are gonna be responses

1799
02:07:20.569 --> 02:07:21.700
or write ups.

1800
02:07:27.560 --> 02:07:29.259
This one is an alternate link

1801
02:07:31.859 --> 02:07:32.709
emerging, right?

1802
02:07:35.549 --> 02:07:38.410
This one is an alternative. I remember that

1803
02:07:44.120 --> 02:07:44.339
tagged

1804
02:07:46.470 --> 02:07:46.830
S

1805
02:07:57.189 --> 02:07:59.359
oh Yeah, there was a lot going on in that one.

1806
02:08:01.859 --> 02:08:03.149
I'm gonna call that one.

1807
02:08:03.399 --> 02:08:03.410
A

1808
02:08:03.779 --> 02:08:04.759
response

1809
02:08:13.569 --> 02:08:15.410
takes our responses

1810
02:08:17.629 --> 02:08:18.520
about this one.

1811
02:08:19.529 --> 02:08:20.200
Yeah.

1812
02:08:20.399 --> 02:08:24.640
Merging plagiarism into primary source. I remember that one. There was um

1813
02:08:25.450 --> 02:08:28.290
I wanna say it was even submitted before the primary source,

1814
02:08:28.299 --> 02:08:29.779
which was kind of gross but

1815
02:08:31.270 --> 02:08:32.689
somebody just copied

1816
02:08:33.490 --> 02:08:34.069
a uh

1817
02:08:35.779 --> 02:08:36.560
post.

1818
02:08:38.339 --> 02:08:41.629
I think I might have ended up banning the plagiarism site for this one.

1819
02:08:42.160 --> 02:08:43.879
I don't recall instantly, but

1820
02:08:45.680 --> 02:08:47.500
they just knocked off the blog post.

1821
02:08:47.509 --> 02:08:50.200
But we had already had some comments on by the time it got.

1822
02:08:52.310 --> 02:08:52.770
So

1823
02:08:54.209 --> 02:08:55.470
what am I gonna call that?

1824
02:08:56.040 --> 02:08:58.350
Don't wanna just say plagiarism make it its own

1825
02:08:58.759 --> 02:08:59.549
category.

1826
02:09:00.080 --> 02:09:00.629
It's

1827
02:09:00.759 --> 02:09:02.640
real rare. It's like a

1828
02:09:03.569 --> 02:09:05.500
maybe once a year thing.

1829
02:09:11.810 --> 02:09:12.299
Hm

1830
02:09:18.520 --> 02:09:21.830
I'm gonna classify it as a write up cause there's so few.

1831
02:09:21.839 --> 02:09:25.660
I don't know that it's worth breaking out and I'm not gonna be

1832
02:09:26.609 --> 02:09:27.240
so I'm,

1833
02:09:27.580 --> 02:09:29.399
I'm not trying to be ontological

1834
02:09:30.169 --> 02:09:31.490
complete here.

1835
02:09:32.040 --> 02:09:35.209
The goal is what's useful for writing this document for

1836
02:09:35.220 --> 02:09:38.899
users and I don't think it needs to call out.

1837
02:09:38.910 --> 02:09:40.589
Hey, don't submit plagiarism.

1838
02:09:44.779 --> 02:09:46.029
This one's a write up

1839
02:09:52.430 --> 02:09:54.500
that was already done. Done.

1840
02:09:56.970 --> 02:09:57.629
Done.

1841
02:10:07.930 --> 02:10:08.080
Come

1842
02:10:08.310 --> 02:10:08.450
down.

1843
02:10:10.120 --> 02:10:10.339
Du

1844
02:10:10.509 --> 02:10:10.779
du du

1845
02:10:10.919 --> 02:10:11.049
du,

1846
02:10:16.660 --> 02:10:17.879
that's a write up

1847
02:10:19.459 --> 02:10:22.390
and I was grumpy about if I called it content marketing.

1848
02:10:24.200 --> 02:10:25.600
Oh Free node,

1849
02:10:25.830 --> 02:10:26.439
man.

1850
02:10:26.939 --> 02:10:31.160
You know exactly which week that was what like three years and change ago.

1851
02:10:31.319 --> 02:10:33.839
There's another one that had a bunch of merges was um

1852
02:10:35.689 --> 02:10:37.390
when free note was taken over.

1853
02:10:49.069 --> 02:10:49.299
Yeah.

1854
02:10:49.870 --> 02:10:50.450
Come here.

1855
02:10:59.250 --> 02:11:00.709
That's a response.

1856
02:11:02.549 --> 02:11:07.609
That's also a response because those are a couple of hot takes and then these are

1857
02:11:08.180 --> 02:11:08.720
um

1858
02:11:11.220 --> 02:11:12.040
write ups

1859
02:11:18.140 --> 02:11:20.819
um Merging into the same story as one I should do

1860
02:11:21.350 --> 02:11:22.899
right. Run through here

1861
02:11:23.100 --> 02:11:23.640
in a minute.

1862
02:11:28.580 --> 02:11:32.979
Oh, yeah. This one X NSA Hecker drops New Zero Days Doom for Zoom.

1863
02:11:33.250 --> 02:11:34.919
Not only was it a dupe,

1864
02:11:35.529 --> 02:11:36.629
it was a, uh,

1865
02:11:36.950 --> 02:11:39.700
like a general news site and we had already had the

1866
02:11:42.000 --> 02:11:43.620
primary source submitted

1867
02:11:43.770 --> 02:11:48.490
that's real common for security news because somebody sees something interesting

1868
02:11:48.850 --> 02:11:50.580
and security is just sort of

1869
02:11:51.850 --> 02:11:53.180
always a little

1870
02:11:54.500 --> 02:11:57.220
emotionally salient. Like, it kind of grabs you.

1871
02:11:59.209 --> 02:12:01.609
I found a bunch of the times where I'm like, wow,

1872
02:12:02.370 --> 02:12:04.660
like, not only is it already posted, it's not

1873
02:12:05.319 --> 02:12:08.660
actually a ton of interesting stuff.

1874
02:12:08.950 --> 02:12:09.890
Like the only

1875
02:12:10.240 --> 02:12:13.939
interesting thing might be who is the victim rather than how

1876
02:12:21.470 --> 02:12:22.640
write ups

1877
02:12:23.160 --> 02:12:23.410
dope

1878
02:12:32.660 --> 02:12:35.029
handled response response.

1879
02:12:40.109 --> 02:12:41.680
I've wrapped around. Ok.

1880
02:12:45.379 --> 02:12:46.589
So this into s

1881
02:12:46.819 --> 02:12:47.850
story.

1882
02:12:51.270 --> 02:12:52.410
These are like

1883
02:12:55.149 --> 02:12:56.700
half responses and

1884
02:12:57.379 --> 02:12:58.600
half write ups,

1885
02:13:02.870 --> 02:13:05.089
more, more complicated.

1886
02:13:06.290 --> 02:13:07.910
They also can be.

1887
02:13:10.549 --> 02:13:12.390
There's also some same story.

1888
02:13:15.680 --> 02:13:19.410
Ah, yeah. Good Eye. I see it up here at the top, a different kind of CT log.

1889
02:13:22.240 --> 02:13:24.779
So some of these,

1890
02:13:25.259 --> 02:13:28.540
there are a couple of things so they are third party write ups.

1891
02:13:29.979 --> 02:13:32.600
This post mortem one. I think

1892
02:13:33.520 --> 02:13:36.939
I would call it an alternate because it was from the same source

1893
02:13:38.140 --> 02:13:38.839
and then

1894
02:13:40.520 --> 02:13:45.450
some of these are responses. So we're gonna have to look at those individually.

1895
02:13:53.109 --> 02:13:56.180
Yeah, I think all of those I'll have to look at individually.

1896
02:14:01.669 --> 02:14:03.089
Let's make all those links.

1897
02:14:06.009 --> 02:14:08.990
Could you explain that this one is a little backwards?

1898
02:14:14.350 --> 02:14:14.890
Oh,

1899
02:14:16.299 --> 02:14:17.060
so

1900
02:14:17.290 --> 02:14:19.770
Nintendo is suing the creator of switch emulator y you.

1901
02:14:19.779 --> 02:14:21.680
This is a little backwards but to keep together

1902
02:14:21.689 --> 02:14:24.240
links on the same story in one week emerging,

1903
02:14:24.250 --> 02:14:27.990
the third party right up into the more recent and decisive primary source.

1904
02:14:28.330 --> 02:14:29.390
So this is

1905
02:14:30.990 --> 02:14:35.129
I bet there was a time gap between the first

1906
02:14:35.140 --> 02:14:38.270
one which was a third party write up and then

1907
02:14:39.609 --> 02:14:41.029
the first party source.

1908
02:14:41.990 --> 02:14:43.209
So usually

1909
02:14:44.129 --> 02:14:46.629
that's not in the notes, That's a good one. So,

1910
02:14:49.490 --> 02:14:50.640
so this one is

1911
02:14:51.350 --> 02:14:53.470
34 at 2 p.m.

1912
02:14:55.140 --> 02:14:58.080
and this one is 228 so six days earlier and

1913
02:14:58.370 --> 02:15:00.990
that's why I kind of called it out as a little backwards cause

1914
02:15:05.359 --> 02:15:07.700
merge into the earliest

1915
02:15:09.299 --> 02:15:10.189
submitted

1916
02:15:10.839 --> 02:15:12.549
rather than the latest submitted.

1917
02:15:13.899 --> 02:15:15.939
But here it was intention

1918
02:15:16.080 --> 02:15:19.990
or with this idea of preferred primary sources.

1919
02:15:21.350 --> 02:15:24.470
So maybe we're seeing some kind of priority order.

1920
02:15:24.839 --> 02:15:25.890
So good eye.

1921
02:15:27.180 --> 02:15:29.000
Yeah, actually on these like

1922
02:15:29.620 --> 02:15:30.870
technical write ups,

1923
02:15:34.390 --> 02:15:35.399
I think.

1924
02:15:38.390 --> 02:15:39.089
Yeah. So

1925
02:15:39.549 --> 02:15:42.919
really what's going on here is like there's this practice and then

1926
02:15:43.270 --> 02:15:46.040
just the question of deciding which

1927
02:15:46.240 --> 02:15:48.379
will be the primary

1928
02:15:49.120 --> 02:15:49.959
story.

1929
02:15:54.459 --> 02:15:58.660
And this is kind of the decision tree of first, is it the primary source?

1930
02:16:00.200 --> 02:16:00.910
Second,

1931
02:16:01.589 --> 02:16:03.020
is it the earlier one?

1932
02:16:05.509 --> 02:16:06.479
And this one,

1933
02:16:06.830 --> 02:16:09.129
this honestly is a little fuzzy

1934
02:16:09.669 --> 02:16:12.479
and we could go through them. But I think,

1935
02:16:17.979 --> 02:16:19.959
you know, if it's an hour or two,

1936
02:16:21.089 --> 02:16:23.149
especially if there's just one or two comments,

1937
02:16:23.350 --> 02:16:24.830
I'll go ahead and merge

1938
02:16:25.959 --> 02:16:29.740
an earlier news story into the technical right up.

1939
02:16:29.939 --> 02:16:32.009
But if it's days, well,

1940
02:16:33.629 --> 02:16:34.849
no, actually, I think that's,

1941
02:16:35.419 --> 02:16:36.690
I think that's pretty consistent

1942
02:16:37.940 --> 02:16:39.429
as kind of the tiebreaker.

1943
02:16:39.589 --> 02:16:39.610
So

1944
02:16:39.799 --> 02:16:41.349
the earliest submitted.

1945
02:16:42.568 --> 02:16:43.109
All right.

1946
02:16:45.120 --> 02:16:45.500
Right.

1947
02:16:48.159 --> 02:16:50.678
So great questionnaire Rich. Thank you.

1948
02:17:30.218 --> 02:17:35.750
This is sort of an ultimate take on this and then merge in responses,

1949
02:17:35.849 --> 02:17:37.549
merge in updates.

1950
02:17:40.900 --> 02:17:41.610
Like I haven't

1951
02:17:41.780 --> 02:17:46.459
categorized many as updates, but that's part of what these same story ones are.

1952
02:17:55.419 --> 02:17:56.558
All right. So,

1953
02:18:00.529 --> 02:18:03.109
oh, this one, I remember this one. It was um

1954
02:18:06.290 --> 02:18:07.280
a uh

1955
02:18:10.490 --> 02:18:13.150
oh I don't know if it was first or third party, so I have to pull it up later.

1956
02:18:14.419 --> 02:18:14.799
All right.

1957
02:18:16.280 --> 02:18:18.490
So another thing that pops out at me.

1958
02:18:19.179 --> 02:18:21.240
Oh, wait. Did I finish the primary sources?

1959
02:18:22.000 --> 02:18:22.940
No,

1960
02:18:24.379 --> 02:18:25.799
because here's what I missed.

1961
02:18:26.870 --> 02:18:28.030
Maybe I just missed it.

1962
02:18:33.068 --> 02:18:35.568
I think that was a write up. Let me double check that one

1963
02:18:43.989 --> 02:18:45.678
and I'm fighting the cursor.

1964
02:18:45.949 --> 02:18:46.508
Come here,

1965
02:18:54.120 --> 02:18:54.190
just

1966
02:18:54.820 --> 02:18:56.290
grabbed the tab at the end of it.

1967
02:18:59.599 --> 02:19:00.769
Oh, yeah. This one

1968
02:19:02.477 --> 02:19:03.539
is third party.

1969
02:19:04.599 --> 02:19:06.049
Yeah, I like that guy's blog though.

1970
02:19:10.999 --> 02:19:12.598
So that one was

1971
02:19:12.968 --> 02:19:13.909
a write out

1972
02:19:19.990 --> 02:19:20.570
and then

1973
02:19:22.169 --> 02:19:23.589
this, I sure don't remember.

1974
02:19:26.540 --> 02:19:28.429
Looks like I just missed one or two in the

1975
02:19:28.440 --> 02:19:30.160
middle because all the rest of these are done.

1976
02:19:31.169 --> 02:19:33.379
Strip to the bottom. Look back.

1977
02:19:34.990 --> 02:19:38.200
Oh, it looks like we've got some of these safe stories. Same stories.

1978
02:19:49.830 --> 02:19:51.459
Yeah. Looks like there's plenty actually.

1979
02:19:54.330 --> 02:19:56.870
All right. So I lost my place investigating that one.

1980
02:19:57.559 --> 02:19:58.780
We'll just start from here.

1981
02:20:28.330 --> 02:20:29.620
Can I search for,

1982
02:20:29.730 --> 02:20:30.309
hang on

1983
02:20:30.490 --> 02:20:32.700
primary source

1984
02:20:33.889 --> 02:20:34.750
and then

1985
02:20:40.660 --> 02:20:42.509
any character

1986
02:20:44.330 --> 02:20:45.490
that's not a tab.

1987
02:20:51.879 --> 02:20:53.120
So say

1988
02:20:53.250 --> 02:20:53.790
no

1989
02:20:54.559 --> 02:20:55.360
tab

1990
02:20:55.719 --> 02:20:56.540
star

1991
02:20:58.330 --> 02:20:59.000
to the end.

1992
02:21:00.730 --> 02:21:01.599
There we go.

1993
02:21:03.019 --> 02:21:05.230
That cuts out all the ones that have already been looked at.

1994
02:21:06.400 --> 02:21:09.110
So this was right up.

1995
02:21:10.599 --> 02:21:11.900
That one. I don't know.

1996
02:21:13.269 --> 02:21:14.769
This one is an alternate.

1997
02:21:21.780 --> 02:21:22.549
What's this?

1998
02:21:26.379 --> 02:21:28.000
This one was a write up.

1999
02:21:31.719 --> 02:21:34.129
This one was a response.

2000
02:21:38.049 --> 02:21:43.509
Only 14 of these left and then we can get back to Libre office and sear your retinas.

2001
02:21:50.040 --> 02:21:51.169
This one's all right up.

2002
02:21:57.990 --> 02:21:59.570
This ones are right up.

2003
02:22:03.940 --> 02:22:06.519
This one's I guess I'd call it an alternate.

2004
02:22:06.830 --> 02:22:09.309
So it was the same story.

2005
02:22:09.469 --> 02:22:11.150
So same story

2006
02:22:11.950 --> 02:22:14.730
also just means an independent thing.

2007
02:22:15.080 --> 02:22:18.879
So like in this one, there was an exploit called Checkmate

2008
02:22:20.280 --> 02:22:25.339
where at the same day there was the original announcement and then there was another

2009
02:22:25.860 --> 02:22:27.299
interview with the author

2010
02:22:27.870 --> 02:22:29.219
and I wonder,

2011
02:22:30.080 --> 02:22:32.360
I think I could just call that an alternate

2012
02:22:32.370 --> 02:22:35.209
cause it's an interview with the primary source.

2013
02:22:36.379 --> 02:22:37.549
Yeah, I think that's fair.

2014
02:22:43.269 --> 02:22:43.870
This one's

2015
02:22:44.429 --> 02:22:44.440
a,

2016
02:22:47.429 --> 02:22:48.769
this one's a response.

2017
02:22:58.169 --> 02:22:59.950
This one was this a fish

2018
02:23:02.290 --> 02:23:05.559
because it's an alternator or a write up. I don't recall

2019
02:23:08.429 --> 02:23:10.389
looking at it off stream. Oh Man.

2020
02:23:11.570 --> 02:23:12.950
Many duplicates.

2021
02:23:13.089 --> 02:23:14.669
So this one was titled

2022
02:23:17.839 --> 02:23:19.190
Getting Started.

2023
02:23:20.730 --> 02:23:22.580
So it was from medium. So it's just

2024
02:23:23.769 --> 02:23:24.290
some

2025
02:23:26.219 --> 02:23:28.730
quick follow of here's how you do the thing.

2026
02:23:29.509 --> 02:23:31.049
I'm gonna call that a response.

2027
02:23:34.219 --> 02:23:37.030
This one is the alternate. So like a H

2028
02:23:37.509 --> 02:23:39.589
I called it out here of merged mailing list

2029
02:23:39.599 --> 02:23:42.469
archive and a story from primary source posted later.

2030
02:23:43.790 --> 02:23:47.759
So this was, we had somebody's mailing list post and then

2031
02:23:48.139 --> 02:23:49.769
probably a few hours

2032
02:23:50.019 --> 02:23:51.379
or a few days later,

2033
02:23:51.580 --> 02:23:52.900
someone submitted the

2034
02:23:53.389 --> 02:23:54.660
actual announcement.

2035
02:24:05.709 --> 02:24:07.040
This one was a write up.

2036
02:24:14.070 --> 02:24:15.290
This was a write up,

2037
02:24:20.139 --> 02:24:23.000
uh less that they leaked it and more that's

2038
02:24:23.009 --> 02:24:25.320
just where somebody happened to hear of it.

2039
02:24:25.660 --> 02:24:26.360
So,

2040
02:24:27.419 --> 02:24:29.000
on the mailing list,

2041
02:24:30.240 --> 02:24:30.509
you know,

2042
02:24:30.519 --> 02:24:33.709
if someone was subscribed to the mailing list and they saw the announcement,

2043
02:24:33.719 --> 02:24:35.820
they might immediately submit that

2044
02:24:36.330 --> 02:24:37.219
where

2045
02:24:37.360 --> 02:24:41.879
we probably would do better with a like actual product announcement,

2046
02:24:42.280 --> 02:24:45.879
product, not necessarily a product but a version announcement, blog post

2047
02:24:46.429 --> 02:24:46.839
because,

2048
02:24:47.240 --> 02:24:47.459
you know,

2049
02:24:47.469 --> 02:24:50.599
sometimes the mailing list post is just a change log or is

2050
02:24:50.610 --> 02:24:54.879
otherwise written more for internal consumption and then like a blog post

2051
02:24:56.690 --> 02:24:58.730
is better to start a discussion from.

2052
02:25:01.519 --> 02:25:03.750
I don't remember what that one is. We'll have to look at it.

2053
02:25:08.259 --> 02:25:09.280
This one's a write up.

2054
02:25:15.120 --> 02:25:18.419
That was all right. No, this was a response.

2055
02:25:24.089 --> 02:25:25.889
This one was a

2056
02:25:27.030 --> 02:25:27.559
ready go.

2057
02:25:30.580 --> 02:25:31.750
That's a write up

2058
02:25:32.919 --> 02:25:34.969
and that's all the way around. OK.

2059
02:25:39.660 --> 02:25:42.559
So anything. Oh, press release.

2060
02:25:46.849 --> 02:25:48.509
So those are gonna be alternates.

2061
02:25:51.440 --> 02:25:52.900
Only seven,

2062
02:25:53.290 --> 02:25:54.330
not too bad.

2063
02:26:00.219 --> 02:26:01.160
And then

2064
02:26:03.549 --> 02:26:05.209
anybody else popping out.

2065
02:26:18.099 --> 02:26:19.160
This one's a

2066
02:26:20.179 --> 02:26:21.040
uh right up

2067
02:26:22.290 --> 02:26:23.580
and it's about lobsters

2068
02:26:25.129 --> 02:26:30.230
every once in a while. So like part of being a moderator is being the no fun police.

2069
02:26:31.940 --> 02:26:33.129
But I figure like

2070
02:26:33.559 --> 02:26:34.719
once a year

2071
02:26:35.559 --> 02:26:36.459
this kind of like

2072
02:26:41.950 --> 02:26:45.049
it's the lobster emoji, which is not super

2073
02:26:46.549 --> 02:26:47.519
topical,

2074
02:26:47.709 --> 02:26:49.599
especially because it was just, um,

2075
02:26:50.000 --> 02:26:54.219
some guy fighting over being the gold sponsor, Lobsters, our site

2076
02:26:54.580 --> 02:26:56.490
was the silver sponsor for that emoji.

2077
02:26:57.290 --> 02:26:58.410
Uh, in any case.

2078
02:27:01.500 --> 02:27:02.790
Oh, I see.

2079
02:27:04.509 --> 02:27:08.490
Uh Je, and you're suggesting that that's a pattern we're sipping through.

2080
02:27:10.030 --> 02:27:10.480
Come here.

2081
02:27:13.040 --> 02:27:14.299
Let's do that.

2082
02:27:14.929 --> 02:27:16.219
I'm gonna reuse that.

2083
02:27:21.750 --> 02:27:23.929
Ok. Looks like we got eight of those.

2084
02:27:25.820 --> 02:27:27.690
No, it's enough for me to go on. So,

2085
02:27:28.360 --> 02:27:33.059
so these are gonna be write ups because otherwise I would not have referred to

2086
02:27:34.099 --> 02:27:35.250
those as

2087
02:27:39.910 --> 02:27:41.089
the announcement.

2088
02:27:41.370 --> 02:27:43.169
All right. So there's those,

2089
02:27:48.959 --> 02:27:51.360
that one's right up. Hey, look, here's the uh

2090
02:27:51.820 --> 02:27:54.940
the day of the Microsoft acquisition and you can just kind of see

2091
02:27:55.179 --> 02:27:55.980
a bunch of them.

2092
02:28:00.490 --> 02:28:01.030
All right.

2093
02:28:09.490 --> 02:28:11.280
There is a bunch down here where

2094
02:28:11.599 --> 02:28:14.169
J CS did not write reasons for his merges.

2095
02:28:16.809 --> 02:28:19.299
Oh, and he liked calling them dub instead of dupe.

2096
02:28:22.969 --> 02:28:23.429
All right.

2097
02:28:31.830 --> 02:28:32.759
OK.

2098
02:28:33.150 --> 02:28:35.259
I think that's probably

2099
02:28:35.870 --> 02:28:36.660
enough

2100
02:28:36.950 --> 02:28:39.019
to get back into Libre office,

2101
02:28:39.980 --> 02:28:42.240
which is there a reload?

2102
02:28:43.000 --> 02:28:45.940
Cancel all changes? All right. So I'm gonna have to

2103
02:28:46.700 --> 02:28:48.259
shrink this back over.

2104
02:28:50.490 --> 02:28:51.190
Can I just

2105
02:28:52.120 --> 02:28:54.370
format all of these as links right now?

2106
02:28:56.730 --> 02:28:56.980
Oh,

2107
02:28:57.419 --> 02:28:58.049
are you

2108
02:28:59.370 --> 02:29:00.709
format

2109
02:29:03.889 --> 02:29:05.200
anchor? No

2110
02:29:07.519 --> 02:29:08.129
data?

2111
02:29:10.759 --> 02:29:13.110
Yeah, I guess I'll just copy and paste instead of click on them.

2112
02:29:13.120 --> 02:29:15.530
Uh They'd head over to my personal browser anyway. So

2113
02:29:16.349 --> 02:29:17.290
I was gonna have to.

2114
02:29:19.000 --> 02:29:20.549
OK. So

2115
02:29:21.000 --> 02:29:22.190
could shrink that in.

2116
02:29:23.519 --> 02:29:25.940
And this column is

2117
02:29:27.950 --> 02:29:28.809
category

2118
02:29:35.860 --> 02:29:39.019
And if we take all this

2119
02:29:41.360 --> 02:29:42.099
and

2120
02:29:44.650 --> 02:29:45.379
can I just

2121
02:29:47.769 --> 02:29:49.450
make a, yeah, here we go.

2122
02:29:50.080 --> 02:29:51.120
So, here

2123
02:29:51.280 --> 02:29:53.480
if we sort ascending,

2124
02:29:56.530 --> 02:29:58.519
here's everybody that's marked.

2125
02:30:03.160 --> 02:30:07.150
So that was roughly half of them categorized.

2126
02:30:08.549 --> 02:30:09.330
That's not bad

2127
02:30:10.370 --> 02:30:11.780
for the amount of time it took.

2128
02:30:17.879 --> 02:30:19.769
Oh, mosquito. Excuse me.

2129
02:30:21.219 --> 02:30:24.009
The noise compressor should have kept that from being too bad. But,

2130
02:30:24.190 --> 02:30:24.440
oh

2131
02:30:24.610 --> 02:30:27.389
yeah, there's a place where I slipped on to two lines.

2132
02:30:30.769 --> 02:30:32.030
This one was a duke

2133
02:30:33.429 --> 02:30:34.889
and then I have to delete the rows.

2134
02:30:40.240 --> 02:30:41.849
This one also

2135
02:30:47.200 --> 02:30:48.230
probably just

2136
02:30:51.610 --> 02:30:54.849
get these pretty easy by using the control down.

2137
02:30:58.780 --> 02:30:59.110
Yep.

2138
02:31:05.870 --> 02:31:07.660
369 also.

2139
02:31:09.269 --> 02:31:10.730
Did I get it in the time?

2140
02:31:11.669 --> 02:31:12.889
Oh, yep, you got

2141
02:31:13.009 --> 02:31:13.030
it.

2142
02:31:14.080 --> 02:31:15.160
I did not get it.

2143
02:31:17.139 --> 02:31:17.679
Oh,

2144
02:31:18.070 --> 02:31:19.639
not in sir. Rose. Delete.

2145
02:31:23.929 --> 02:31:25.230
I can see this one.

2146
02:31:27.059 --> 02:31:29.299
I wonder if these came in before I uh

2147
02:31:29.599 --> 02:31:32.519
I shift the lead to uh I control the lead.

2148
02:31:33.530 --> 02:31:35.709
I could use a shortcut for deleting the row

2149
02:31:46.780 --> 02:31:47.910
but there isn't one.

2150
02:31:48.500 --> 02:31:50.759
So I will just have to use the mouse

2151
02:31:54.280 --> 02:31:55.740
back in the eighties.

2152
02:31:57.410 --> 02:31:59.049
Oh, man, I thought I would only

2153
02:31:59.250 --> 02:32:01.759
goof these on two or three. This is like a

2154
02:32:02.070 --> 02:32:02.700
bunch.

2155
02:32:13.480 --> 02:32:14.580
Here's the four

2156
02:32:16.190 --> 02:32:16.639
sp

2157
02:32:22.349 --> 02:32:23.250
response.

2158
02:32:25.610 --> 02:32:27.879
Guess I was moving pretty fast on those responses.

2159
02:32:36.400 --> 02:32:37.570
All right. That's all of them.

2160
02:32:38.589 --> 02:32:39.799
This one is a dupe.

2161
02:32:43.320 --> 02:32:44.620
This one is a write up.

2162
02:32:46.719 --> 02:32:47.940
This is an alternative.

2163
02:32:50.580 --> 02:32:51.599
This is a write up

2164
02:32:57.559 --> 02:33:00.259
more definitive length. This is probably a write up

2165
02:33:02.610 --> 02:33:04.089
as are these

2166
02:33:07.610 --> 02:33:08.950
do remerge.

2167
02:33:09.910 --> 02:33:12.290
Yeah. The uh the U I on merging is

2168
02:33:12.580 --> 02:33:15.009
not quite as helpful as you might want. And so

2169
02:33:15.530 --> 02:33:16.129
it is,

2170
02:33:16.400 --> 02:33:20.610
you basically as a moderator just have to open the tabs and uh

2171
02:33:22.360 --> 02:33:25.059
copy out of the URL and paste the story ID

2172
02:33:25.809 --> 02:33:28.360
as opposed to the form, having

2173
02:33:28.669 --> 02:33:30.349
any kind of feature in there to help.

2174
02:33:32.570 --> 02:33:34.150
Huh? Old news.

2175
02:33:35.400 --> 02:33:39.750
And I think that's the, the one that's down a little ways. So I'm curious if

2176
02:33:41.030 --> 02:33:44.660
that's a merged that happened way more than a week later.

2177
02:33:45.269 --> 02:33:48.679
So the first one was 2, 16,

2178
02:33:49.669 --> 02:33:52.379
second one was 224. So only six days.

2179
02:33:52.490 --> 02:33:52.929
All right.

2180
02:33:53.099 --> 02:33:56.049
The way it said that I thought it was gonna be a link down to uh

2181
02:33:56.530 --> 02:34:00.500
one of these down here. But I guess get host by name and get adder info

2182
02:34:02.459 --> 02:34:03.190
or not. It

2183
02:34:06.589 --> 02:34:07.809
got some blanks.

2184
02:34:14.610 --> 02:34:15.820
These are write ups.

2185
02:34:25.320 --> 02:34:25.950
That's stupid.

2186
02:34:27.339 --> 02:34:28.360
It's all right up.

2187
02:34:30.320 --> 02:34:31.259
That's right up

2188
02:34:33.690 --> 02:34:35.309
actually. No, that's a response.

2189
02:34:56.120 --> 02:34:56.980
All right.

2190
02:35:05.280 --> 02:35:06.929
Oh, these are uh

2191
02:35:08.690 --> 02:35:09.509
write ups.

2192
02:35:09.639 --> 02:35:12.419
Very topical advent of code. Oops,

2193
02:35:13.120 --> 02:35:14.379
what did I just do come here?

2194
02:35:18.790 --> 02:35:21.809
You can do it with control minus, but you still need to confirm.

2195
02:35:21.820 --> 02:35:23.150
Let's see what that looks like.

2196
02:35:25.870 --> 02:35:27.730
Oh, yeah. Then I would still need to.

2197
02:35:29.030 --> 02:35:32.089
So the uh the pop up appears off stream because uh

2198
02:35:32.099 --> 02:35:37.110
new windows on my desktop automatically appear off of the uh

2199
02:35:37.889 --> 02:35:39.870
area of the desktop for streaming

2200
02:35:41.009 --> 02:35:43.620
just to minimize how much I'm flashing stuff up.

2201
02:35:52.709 --> 02:35:53.469
These are write

2202
02:35:53.620 --> 02:35:53.959
ups.

2203
02:36:10.009 --> 02:36:10.690
Mhm

2204
02:36:10.870 --> 02:36:11.309
Yeah.

2205
02:36:12.089 --> 02:36:15.519
Yeah. So the radio appeared off stream and I didn't just drag it in.

2206
02:36:22.330 --> 02:36:22.349
Oh,

2207
02:36:22.540 --> 02:36:24.860
here we go. So I was looking for one of these.

2208
02:36:28.030 --> 02:36:31.639
Please don't submit stories as a super reply to other stories.

2209
02:36:31.650 --> 02:36:32.969
Just link them in a comment.

2210
02:36:34.879 --> 02:36:35.530
So

2211
02:36:37.549 --> 02:36:38.759
let me pull this one up

2212
02:36:39.000 --> 02:36:41.929
because it's not gonna be too spicy I don't think

2213
02:36:43.160 --> 02:36:44.799
which is convenient cause it,

2214
02:36:45.830 --> 02:36:46.250
you know,

2215
02:36:47.370 --> 02:36:48.030
so

2216
02:36:49.860 --> 02:36:51.650
someone submitted this article

2217
02:36:52.700 --> 02:36:53.589
that was,

2218
02:36:54.019 --> 02:36:56.870
yeah, let's just throw the link in the chat if you're curious

2219
02:36:58.870 --> 02:37:01.580
increase test fidelity by avoiding mocks.

2220
02:37:02.860 --> 02:37:03.759
And then

2221
02:37:05.570 --> 02:37:08.719
how, how much later couple hours 31,

2222
02:37:09.290 --> 02:37:10.269
2051

2223
02:37:11.219 --> 02:37:12.459
32.

2224
02:37:13.000 --> 02:37:13.990
OK. So

2225
02:37:14.129 --> 02:37:15.200
five hours later,

2226
02:37:18.690 --> 02:37:20.150
six hours what a sad

2227
02:37:23.360 --> 02:37:24.620
about six hours later

2228
02:37:26.919 --> 02:37:26.929
a

2229
02:37:27.059 --> 02:37:29.679
thing that people sometimes do

2230
02:37:31.169 --> 02:37:32.219
infrequently,

2231
02:37:33.929 --> 02:37:34.790
but it happens

2232
02:37:35.750 --> 02:37:36.549
is

2233
02:37:38.019 --> 02:37:39.639
they see an article

2234
02:37:40.290 --> 02:37:43.160
and either they disagree with it or

2235
02:37:44.700 --> 02:37:47.019
they feel like it is

2236
02:37:48.209 --> 02:37:50.610
a narrow window on a topic.

2237
02:37:53.339 --> 02:37:55.200
And in response

2238
02:37:56.169 --> 02:38:00.030
they say, you know what I saw an excellent post about this,

2239
02:38:00.750 --> 02:38:03.830
I will submit the excellent post and in this case,

2240
02:38:04.129 --> 02:38:06.559
the excellent post was from

2241
02:38:08.230 --> 02:38:09.330
20 years ago.

2242
02:38:11.330 --> 02:38:11.790
Yeah.

2243
02:38:12.709 --> 02:38:14.009
Can remember when this came out?

2244
02:38:16.370 --> 02:38:16.379
Oh,

2245
02:38:16.910 --> 02:38:17.589
it's gone.

2246
02:38:19.759 --> 02:38:21.299
I guess I'm dating myself there

2247
02:38:22.620 --> 02:38:23.200
and

2248
02:38:25.339 --> 02:38:28.320
very often I don't know if it's the case here,

2249
02:38:28.379 --> 02:38:31.990
but often the person who is submitting a story.

2250
02:38:32.400 --> 02:38:33.320
Yeah, so

2251
02:38:34.139 --> 02:38:36.370
you can see it doesn't have the merged I

2252
02:38:36.959 --> 02:38:38.000
URL here.

2253
02:38:38.509 --> 02:38:39.679
So non

2254
02:38:39.839 --> 02:38:40.440
crab,

2255
02:38:40.750 --> 02:38:45.559
there's actually a really, really lucky example because it's very clear

2256
02:38:46.080 --> 02:38:49.290
from the fact that non crab left a comment on the

2257
02:38:49.669 --> 02:38:50.940
target story

2258
02:38:51.570 --> 02:38:54.559
that they are replying to the story. And they said

2259
02:38:55.639 --> 02:38:57.360
this paper makes this point.

2260
02:38:58.129 --> 02:38:58.790
So

2261
02:39:06.040 --> 02:39:08.299
I read them not as

2262
02:39:10.049 --> 02:39:12.750
rebutting something they disagree with as expanding

2263
02:39:12.759 --> 02:39:14.469
on something that they feel was limited.

2264
02:39:15.169 --> 02:39:17.110
Yeah, mock world is not object is such

2265
02:39:17.219 --> 02:39:17.309
a, a

2266
02:39:17.620 --> 02:39:19.360
classic story. I actually,

2267
02:39:20.139 --> 02:39:21.740
I now would say,

2268
02:39:22.360 --> 02:39:22.379
yeah,

2269
02:39:22.530 --> 02:39:25.879
we're getting distracted into what it's actually about but yes, good paper.

2270
02:39:30.669 --> 02:39:31.440
So

2271
02:39:33.349 --> 02:39:34.250
not to put,

2272
02:39:37.469 --> 02:39:40.650
I am speaking more for the general case than the specific.

2273
02:39:41.139 --> 02:39:43.570
Although it's kind of clear what happened here is

2274
02:39:46.559 --> 02:39:47.940
someone felt that

2275
02:39:48.750 --> 02:39:49.580
the

2276
02:39:50.009 --> 02:39:51.129
rebuttal

2277
02:39:51.570 --> 02:39:54.950
or the alternate explanation on the same topic

2278
02:39:55.389 --> 02:40:01.250
was so much better that they wanted to have a thread that was just about

2279
02:40:01.919 --> 02:40:02.769
their link.

2280
02:40:03.480 --> 02:40:04.139
And

2281
02:40:08.940 --> 02:40:13.480
it's sort of a way to use a story as a super comment.

2282
02:40:13.490 --> 02:40:17.349
And I think I've called it a super reply or a super comment.

2283
02:40:18.070 --> 02:40:20.950
And this is not a great term because

2284
02:40:21.469 --> 02:40:23.650
it's clear to me what I mean,

2285
02:40:23.830 --> 02:40:27.089
but it is not automatically clear to people who see it in the mod log

2286
02:40:27.870 --> 02:40:28.709
because

2287
02:40:29.730 --> 02:40:33.169
people ask about it in the chat room or

2288
02:40:33.690 --> 02:40:38.110
I get a puzzle DM about it of why did you merge my story? And it's

2289
02:40:39.299 --> 02:40:41.759
because we are trying to keep the discussion together.

2290
02:40:41.860 --> 02:40:45.509
And if we split the discussion up into multiple posts,

2291
02:40:45.519 --> 02:40:47.719
we end up rehashing a lot of the same stuff.

2292
02:40:48.490 --> 02:40:49.549
And in this case,

2293
02:40:51.139 --> 02:40:55.709
like these replies to the paper would not be visible on the paper

2294
02:40:56.809 --> 02:41:01.150
story if it were an independent link. So this is strongly

2295
02:41:01.530 --> 02:41:06.219
one of the values, one of the most significant values for story merging

2296
02:41:06.900 --> 02:41:09.139
and maybe also one of the more contentious

2297
02:41:09.320 --> 02:41:11.589
because when people do this,

2298
02:41:13.669 --> 02:41:14.719
they are often,

2299
02:41:14.820 --> 02:41:18.160
you know, I don't wanna cast aspersions because this is such a a

2300
02:41:18.320 --> 02:41:22.320
case by case basis. And I can't always tell what somebody's goal is.

2301
02:41:25.269 --> 02:41:30.650
But it's often that they feel that the alternate link that they are submitting

2302
02:41:32.450 --> 02:41:37.309
is so much superior that it should have its own discussion.

2303
02:41:37.830 --> 02:41:39.269
That's just about it.

2304
02:41:40.450 --> 02:41:42.910
And sometimes definitely not this case

2305
02:41:43.339 --> 02:41:45.070
because this one's not even an argument.

2306
02:41:46.570 --> 02:41:47.709
Sometimes

2307
02:41:48.070 --> 02:41:48.950
that is

2308
02:41:49.320 --> 02:41:51.919
with hot takes especially it's like,

2309
02:41:52.089 --> 02:41:53.150
well, I want

2310
02:41:53.860 --> 02:41:55.200
a story thread

2311
02:41:55.669 --> 02:41:58.040
that's just about how everyone agrees with me

2312
02:41:58.490 --> 02:42:00.330
and we're gonna have a whole threaded discussion

2313
02:42:00.339 --> 02:42:02.849
that's gonna start from my favorite blog posts.

2314
02:42:02.860 --> 02:42:05.120
Hot take on these events.

2315
02:42:07.019 --> 02:42:11.080
And then I will get what I want, which is a thread full of people agreeing with me,

2316
02:42:11.589 --> 02:42:12.730
less than a

2317
02:42:13.370 --> 02:42:16.179
thread full of people discussing the topic.

2318
02:42:24.049 --> 02:42:27.469
So this is one of those practices that needs to get explained.

2319
02:42:28.790 --> 02:42:33.169
Don't use stories as a super reply

2320
02:42:34.820 --> 02:42:36.419
link in comments

2321
02:42:40.360 --> 02:42:46.019
and I don't know how to say it better than to call it a super reply or a super comment.

2322
02:42:51.679 --> 02:42:55.980
But I hope the the general outline of the practice is pretty clear there.

2323
02:42:56.940 --> 02:42:57.690
So let's say half.

2324
02:42:57.879 --> 02:42:58.790
And I said super

2325
02:43:03.459 --> 02:43:04.610
oh this guy doesn't

2326
02:43:05.320 --> 02:43:07.320
library office isn't gonna give me a quick

2327
02:43:08.370 --> 02:43:08.889
version of

2328
02:43:09.179 --> 02:43:10.980
let me save the TSV.

2329
02:43:12.009 --> 02:43:12.870
And then

2330
02:43:14.820 --> 02:43:15.700
come on, let's go.

2331
02:43:21.849 --> 02:43:24.230
So there's one for supercomputer.

2332
02:43:24.629 --> 02:43:25.940
Uh So there's the

2333
02:43:26.110 --> 02:43:26.349
items.

2334
02:43:26.740 --> 02:43:28.570
So super response

2335
02:43:32.639 --> 02:43:36.660
looks like we got four of those and super comment

2336
02:43:37.719 --> 02:43:38.780
one of those.

2337
02:43:39.860 --> 02:43:40.480
So

2338
02:43:40.679 --> 02:43:43.530
it's not a thing I say very often.

2339
02:43:46.839 --> 02:43:47.500
It's

2340
02:43:48.530 --> 02:43:51.269
I might also have said super reply, mightn't I

2341
02:43:54.269 --> 02:43:55.910
Yeah. So one of those two

2342
02:43:57.629 --> 02:43:59.610
super reply, super comment.

2343
02:44:00.299 --> 02:44:02.160
Oh super response.

2344
02:44:03.910 --> 02:44:04.759
All right. So we got a

2345
02:44:05.150 --> 02:44:06.370
three variance.

2346
02:44:09.519 --> 02:44:10.799
So this one is

2347
02:44:16.839 --> 02:44:18.169
let's put it in the scratch

2348
02:44:20.940 --> 02:44:24.040
which I guess this all should just be in the scratch because

2349
02:44:25.009 --> 02:44:26.919
we're getting towards time

2350
02:44:35.230 --> 02:44:39.009
and if I write slow, it's definitely not getting written today.

2351
02:44:46.849 --> 02:44:47.309
Great

2352
02:44:49.809 --> 02:44:51.950
super reply. Super comment.

2353
02:44:57.000 --> 02:44:57.500
So

2354
02:44:58.929 --> 02:45:03.469
it's not just that I only do this on average one time a year cause if there's like

2355
02:45:04.070 --> 02:45:06.019
seven of these, that's one time a year.

2356
02:45:11.099 --> 02:45:13.459
Yeah, it's not super clear to people.

2357
02:45:22.440 --> 02:45:25.040
And I think actually if I search for comment,

2358
02:45:25.049 --> 02:45:27.299
I might have found alternate ways to say it.

2359
02:45:28.990 --> 02:45:31.929
Yeah, please don't submit stories to be a super response.

2360
02:45:35.269 --> 02:45:36.519
Super comment

2361
02:45:38.360 --> 02:45:39.259
unrelated.

2362
02:45:40.320 --> 02:45:42.110
No, I'm searching for come here

2363
02:45:48.500 --> 02:45:49.259
ratio.

2364
02:45:49.610 --> 02:45:50.519
Oh yeah,

2365
02:45:51.559 --> 02:45:52.629
yeah, that's um

2366
02:45:53.650 --> 02:45:56.150
the Twitter or blue sky version of it.

2367
02:45:56.429 --> 02:45:57.030
Yes.

2368
02:45:59.469 --> 02:46:01.820
Yeah. Oh I did find an alternate way to say it.

2369
02:46:02.959 --> 02:46:03.919
I knew there was something.

2370
02:46:03.929 --> 02:46:07.620
Please don't use stories to reply to stories, just post a comment.

2371
02:46:08.410 --> 02:46:09.690
Yeah. And

2372
02:46:10.070 --> 02:46:15.429
that's why I was trying to be careful about the, the casting Aspersions part was,

2373
02:46:16.919 --> 02:46:17.610
it's

2374
02:46:21.830 --> 02:46:23.669
sometimes it's just,

2375
02:46:23.809 --> 02:46:25.330
I'm really excited

2376
02:46:25.480 --> 02:46:27.740
and I have a great link on this topic

2377
02:46:28.049 --> 02:46:32.370
and then sometimes it's, I want a thread where everyone agrees with me

2378
02:46:33.330 --> 02:46:34.870
and I wanna kind of show you up

2379
02:46:36.309 --> 02:46:37.040
and I

2380
02:46:40.120 --> 02:46:41.980
move the disagrees over there.

2381
02:46:43.009 --> 02:46:43.549
Yeah,

2382
02:46:43.990 --> 02:46:47.190
it could be. That is certainly a more charitable explanation.

2383
02:46:47.339 --> 02:46:48.410
I, I like that.

2384
02:46:48.969 --> 02:46:50.790
I would hope it is more often that

2385
02:46:52.740 --> 02:46:56.709
on the other hand, our community is small enough, it can't really

2386
02:46:56.839 --> 02:46:59.280
brigade itself in the way that

2387
02:47:01.070 --> 02:47:04.620
that could be an issue on Reddit or could be on hacker news

2388
02:47:05.459 --> 02:47:06.330
cause they are

2389
02:47:06.809 --> 02:47:08.360
enormously larger than us.

2390
02:47:09.530 --> 02:47:10.519
And when I say Reddit,

2391
02:47:10.530 --> 02:47:14.059
I'm really referring to like a specific programming subreddit.

2392
02:47:16.019 --> 02:47:16.410
Yeah,

2393
02:47:16.990 --> 02:47:20.240
that's also part of why so on that topic of

2394
02:47:20.690 --> 02:47:23.950
disagrees. That's also part of why

2395
02:47:24.910 --> 02:47:28.860
I characterized lobsters in that meta comment maybe a

2396
02:47:29.500 --> 02:47:33.370
year and a half ago as it's like a big backyard barbecue.

2397
02:47:34.290 --> 02:47:38.839
I think lobsters is at its best when it's a bunch of people who are

2398
02:47:39.200 --> 02:47:41.450
sharing discussion around a topic

2399
02:47:41.860 --> 02:47:45.299
rather than people who are trying to win a fight about a topic.

2400
02:47:47.150 --> 02:47:47.959
There's

2401
02:47:49.870 --> 02:47:51.809
very rarely a

2402
02:47:52.379 --> 02:47:57.889
lot of progress in the public understanding of a topic that comes out of fights.

2403
02:47:58.259 --> 02:47:59.120
It, it

2404
02:47:59.259 --> 02:48:00.509
and I'm speaking here

2405
02:48:00.809 --> 02:48:03.330
just of stuff on our site.

2406
02:48:04.629 --> 02:48:05.209
It's

2407
02:48:10.200 --> 02:48:13.530
when people are having really hard disagreements.

2408
02:48:13.540 --> 02:48:15.589
Even if they don't get into flame wars,

2409
02:48:16.320 --> 02:48:18.179
they don't tend to be able to,

2410
02:48:19.250 --> 02:48:20.549
when you focus on

2411
02:48:21.349 --> 02:48:22.179
winning,

2412
02:48:22.639 --> 02:48:24.900
you almost can't learn.

2413
02:48:25.580 --> 02:48:26.580
I think that's just,

2414
02:48:30.099 --> 02:48:30.549
yeah,

2415
02:48:31.580 --> 02:48:31.900
s

2416
02:48:32.169 --> 02:48:36.120
oh, there's a good reference. You should please drop a link for that one

2417
02:48:37.089 --> 02:48:39.910
because some of these are, are kind of deep cut memes

2418
02:48:40.290 --> 02:48:43.150
and I guess it's becoming clear on these streams that I'm uh

2419
02:48:43.459 --> 02:48:45.919
extremely online that I'm getting most of these memes

2420
02:48:50.320 --> 02:48:52.500
log for J was not the one that got a lot of

2421
02:48:52.709 --> 02:48:53.820
merges I think.

2422
02:48:55.150 --> 02:48:56.530
And I wanna say there was like

2423
02:48:57.639 --> 02:49:00.679
three weeks of stories about it

2424
02:49:02.349 --> 02:49:03.929
where there were three threads.

2425
02:49:06.200 --> 02:49:08.410
Yeah, it was PB F comics.

2426
02:49:09.000 --> 02:49:09.849
That's right.

2427
02:49:15.639 --> 02:49:16.139
So

2428
02:49:16.259 --> 02:49:17.099
the two guys

2429
02:49:18.070 --> 02:49:18.570
people,

2430
02:49:28.040 --> 02:49:28.360
yeah,

2431
02:49:30.860 --> 02:49:32.179
it's just human nature

2432
02:49:32.650 --> 02:49:34.410
that if things are different

2433
02:49:34.700 --> 02:49:37.419
people kind of wanna find which one is better

2434
02:49:42.629 --> 02:49:45.490
and obviously the one that I like more is better, right?

2435
02:50:03.209 --> 02:50:04.629
This once in A I turn it,

2436
02:50:24.370 --> 02:50:25.679
this one's right out.

2437
02:50:29.969 --> 02:50:31.309
Stalin's got cancer.

2438
02:50:33.389 --> 02:50:34.330
I don't think I knew that.

2439
02:50:34.690 --> 02:50:36.410
I mean, this is me merging it but

2440
02:50:37.629 --> 02:50:38.480
didn't register.

2441
02:50:45.030 --> 02:50:45.719
All right.

2442
02:50:54.129 --> 02:50:55.469
So I'm gonna um

2443
02:50:56.330 --> 02:51:01.490
save this and since I just labeled a few more things, let's resort it.

2444
02:51:05.150 --> 02:51:05.919
Oh Look at that

2445
02:51:08.610 --> 02:51:08.959
type

2446
02:51:09.230 --> 02:51:09.349
Bos

2447
02:51:15.059 --> 02:51:17.089
386 out of

2448
02:51:18.169 --> 02:51:20.669
745. So that's

2449
02:51:21.150 --> 02:51:22.870
pretty close to half.

2450
02:51:23.099 --> 02:51:23.469
Yeah.

2451
02:51:30.040 --> 02:51:31.129
Is there a way to get,

2452
02:51:33.700 --> 02:51:35.719
I guess I could just say come here.

2453
02:51:36.910 --> 02:51:41.219
So if I filter this to how many of them are

2454
02:51:41.639 --> 02:51:42.669
alternates

2455
02:51:49.139 --> 02:51:50.120
and then

2456
02:51:50.719 --> 02:51:51.129
like,

2457
02:51:51.419 --> 02:51:54.320
I'm just trying to get some rough ideas of statistics.

2458
02:51:56.269 --> 02:51:58.009
So, so far that's

2459
02:51:58.440 --> 02:51:59.250
28.

2460
02:52:01.019 --> 02:52:02.809
And then if I replace

2461
02:52:03.639 --> 02:52:04.660
with Dupes,

2462
02:52:08.139 --> 02:52:08.830
oh, yeah.

2463
02:52:09.959 --> 02:52:11.459
Looks like there was one where I

2464
02:52:11.599 --> 02:52:12.740
had two things.

2465
02:52:15.059 --> 02:52:15.599
So

2466
02:52:17.650 --> 02:52:19.950
Dupes, there are 64

2467
02:52:27.089 --> 02:52:28.169
let's say,

2468
02:52:30.580 --> 02:52:31.790
let's say responses.

2469
02:52:34.209 --> 02:52:37.110
So responses is 100 and 98.

2470
02:52:38.179 --> 02:52:40.559
If there's 200 out of 350

2471
02:52:40.969 --> 02:52:42.190
that's the bulk of it.

2472
02:52:45.799 --> 02:52:48.059
And then write ups are

2473
02:52:49.980 --> 02:52:51.969
the other 100. OK. So

2474
02:52:52.599 --> 02:52:54.280
responses are most popular

2475
02:52:54.450 --> 02:52:55.559
and then write ups

2476
02:52:56.660 --> 02:52:57.480
and then

2477
02:52:58.660 --> 02:53:00.400
dupes and then alternates.

2478
02:53:04.389 --> 02:53:08.009
I kind of wanted to eyeball that because I'm wondering,

2479
02:53:10.290 --> 02:53:12.790
are those numbers gonna change much

2480
02:53:13.129 --> 02:53:16.500
if I actually go through the other half of this list

2481
02:53:28.320 --> 02:53:31.349
uh looks like there's one more category of updates.

2482
02:53:33.580 --> 02:53:34.280
So

2483
02:53:37.490 --> 02:53:38.790
like these,

2484
02:53:39.070 --> 02:53:41.240
this one like these two are,

2485
02:53:41.700 --> 02:53:45.830
but this one is as well where someone submitted a whole bunch of

2486
02:53:46.769 --> 02:53:47.320
like a,

2487
02:53:47.450 --> 02:53:47.459
a

2488
02:53:47.830 --> 02:53:51.469
series of blog posts. Yeah, I search for series.

2489
02:54:02.440 --> 02:54:03.009
Yeah.

2490
02:54:08.290 --> 02:54:10.509
Oh Yeah. Or here is another one

2491
02:54:10.759 --> 02:54:14.030
that just happened to show up of merging update into earlier submission.

2492
02:54:15.959 --> 02:54:17.629
So sometimes that's

2493
02:54:19.519 --> 02:54:22.400
someone breaks up a blog post into

2494
02:54:23.009 --> 02:54:24.500
multiple posts,

2495
02:54:26.299 --> 02:54:26.790
you know,

2496
02:54:28.440 --> 02:54:33.339
f series Gear Selector. Part one, the idea and then part two, the breakthrough.

2497
02:54:33.349 --> 02:54:35.219
But they only come like two days apart.

2498
02:54:36.650 --> 02:54:38.230
The other one is

2499
02:54:39.150 --> 02:54:41.129
someone submits part one,

2500
02:54:41.320 --> 02:54:45.160
they get a bunch of responses whether on our side or somewhere else.

2501
02:54:46.099 --> 02:54:48.790
And then they write a part two like a day later.

2502
02:54:54.690 --> 02:54:55.589
That's a write up

2503
02:55:04.009 --> 02:55:06.440
any more serious nights. I got the ones,

2504
02:55:31.679 --> 02:55:31.820
uh,

2505
02:55:32.349 --> 02:55:33.660
I guess that's a reason

2506
02:55:38.709 --> 02:55:40.030
because this one is

2507
02:55:43.160 --> 02:55:43.410
so

2508
02:55:45.309 --> 02:55:48.150
we're coming up on the end here of Lobster's office

2509
02:55:48.160 --> 02:55:50.330
hours because I only wanna run for about three weeks.

2510
02:55:50.339 --> 02:55:52.429
And I realize if I start

2511
02:55:52.750 --> 02:55:54.030
writing this up,

2512
02:55:55.259 --> 02:55:57.540
I'm not gonna get anywhere meaningful on stream.

2513
02:55:57.549 --> 02:55:59.599
So I'm gonna punt that part to the next stream.

2514
02:55:59.610 --> 02:56:02.320
But the two things I thought were worth writing

2515
02:56:02.330 --> 02:56:04.599
a little more about and saying a little more

2516
02:56:04.910 --> 02:56:06.400
about have come up.

2517
02:56:07.849 --> 02:56:09.759
The two things are

2518
02:56:16.620 --> 02:56:18.389
a couple of things are tied together,

2519
02:56:24.929 --> 02:56:28.519
clarity in which story comment is replying to

2520
02:56:34.110 --> 02:56:35.429
super replies

2521
02:56:38.440 --> 02:56:41.690
and then kind of the inverse of super replies is

2522
02:56:42.519 --> 02:56:45.400
highlighting best links in a story.

2523
02:56:48.629 --> 02:56:51.089
And so what that becomes is

2524
02:56:52.969 --> 02:56:54.400
what if a comment

2525
02:56:56.160 --> 02:56:59.450
could be promoted to a story?

2526
02:57:01.549 --> 02:57:04.049
So we have a story submitted like

2527
02:57:05.459 --> 02:57:07.929
uh I'm reading off of the spreadsheet.

2528
02:57:08.080 --> 02:57:08.799
Um

2529
02:57:11.139 --> 02:57:13.480
uh Let's just use that that testing title.

2530
02:57:13.790 --> 02:57:14.400
So

2531
02:57:14.519 --> 02:57:16.900
actually, this is, this really is a great example.

2532
02:57:16.910 --> 02:57:20.120
The the one about increased test fidelity by avoiding mocks

2533
02:57:22.009 --> 02:57:23.650
and then non crab

2534
02:57:24.219 --> 02:57:26.950
submitted a comment that was largely saying,

2535
02:57:27.620 --> 02:57:28.889
hey, this paper was great.

2536
02:57:29.490 --> 02:57:30.809
Let's talk about that too.

2537
02:57:33.139 --> 02:57:35.660
This week also seems common. Yeah, that's me.

2538
02:57:37.860 --> 02:57:40.900
Uh That's the other thing that I there is to talk about.

2539
02:57:41.349 --> 02:57:42.809
I'll come back to that in just a sec.

2540
02:57:44.530 --> 02:57:45.269
So

2541
02:57:51.290 --> 02:57:51.830
if

2542
02:57:52.030 --> 02:57:52.580
non

2543
02:57:52.809 --> 02:57:55.870
crab or users could have said you know,

2544
02:57:56.849 --> 02:57:58.080
this comment

2545
02:57:58.330 --> 02:57:59.679
include a link

2546
02:58:00.440 --> 02:58:02.860
to something that we haven't seen before.

2547
02:58:03.269 --> 02:58:04.459
You know, that's not,

2548
02:58:05.120 --> 02:58:07.879
not, haven't seen before. Actually, never mind that part.

2549
02:58:08.080 --> 02:58:10.179
If it includes a link,

2550
02:58:12.309 --> 02:58:14.549
what if there was a way for the author,

2551
02:58:14.669 --> 02:58:15.750
comment, author

2552
02:58:16.219 --> 02:58:18.139
or for readers to say,

2553
02:58:18.530 --> 02:58:21.599
I think this should be promoted to a story.

2554
02:58:23.799 --> 02:58:26.049
And part of the reason I think that is,

2555
02:58:27.900 --> 02:58:29.769
this display is real confusing

2556
02:58:30.509 --> 02:58:31.040
and

2557
02:58:32.059 --> 02:58:34.309
it only gets more confusing

2558
02:58:35.089 --> 02:58:39.929
when there's a whole bunch of stories merged in and I guess I closed the ones, but

2559
02:58:40.950 --> 02:58:44.650
when there's like four or five, it's especially strange that

2560
02:58:46.509 --> 02:58:48.440
the links for this one

2561
02:58:48.620 --> 02:58:51.669
are after all the others, right? So if we go to,

2562
02:58:54.419 --> 02:58:56.150
you know, the most extreme example,

2563
02:58:57.530 --> 02:59:00.830
this top link is Microsoft's press release

2564
02:59:01.830 --> 02:59:04.650
and then this is the metadata for that one

2565
02:59:08.099 --> 02:59:13.160
and the metadata for these others is just kind of in line which is weird.

2566
02:59:16.019 --> 02:59:16.839
And then

2567
02:59:18.179 --> 02:59:20.830
stories from the merged links

2568
02:59:23.379 --> 02:59:25.820
have this tag that people miss.

2569
02:59:27.599 --> 02:59:28.500
And so

2570
02:59:28.700 --> 02:59:30.259
I guess what I'm saying is

2571
02:59:32.299 --> 02:59:32.950
bye,

2572
02:59:35.450 --> 02:59:36.280
commenter

2573
02:59:36.469 --> 02:59:36.959
reader,

2574
02:59:38.480 --> 02:59:39.540
Mad or readers.

2575
02:59:41.190 --> 02:59:42.299
And then also

2576
02:59:43.759 --> 02:59:44.860
rather than

2577
02:59:46.820 --> 02:59:48.839
so hang on, I'll say two things

2578
02:59:49.599 --> 02:59:51.580
clean up the metadata

2579
02:59:52.080 --> 02:59:55.860
on links at the top of the page. Confusing display

2580
02:59:56.910 --> 02:59:57.650
first

2581
02:59:58.519 --> 02:59:59.570
items.

0
03:00:00.829 --> 03:00:02.910
Meta appears last

1
03:00:03.299 --> 03:00:03.869
low

2
03:00:04.519 --> 03:00:06.650
merged stories, right?

3
03:00:08.109 --> 03:00:09.439
But then also

4
03:00:11.649 --> 03:00:14.909
in comments, what if we repeated

5
03:00:15.350 --> 03:00:16.068
each

6
03:00:17.329 --> 03:00:18.469
stories

7
03:00:19.780 --> 03:00:22.239
title and thread title

8
03:00:25.600 --> 03:00:27.579
as a section header

9
03:00:27.690 --> 03:00:28.420
for

10
03:00:29.260 --> 03:00:30.500
it's

11
03:00:30.790 --> 03:00:31.520
comments.

12
03:00:31.530 --> 03:00:34.319
And I say it's in quotes because the value

13
03:00:34.330 --> 03:00:38.759
of story emerging is that we keep the discussion together

14
03:00:40.580 --> 03:00:42.759
if we have a section header.

15
03:00:42.770 --> 03:00:46.950
And so we said, rather than organizing all of the comments by score.

16
03:00:48.409 --> 03:00:49.130
So yeah,

17
03:00:50.650 --> 03:00:52.290
rather than organize

18
03:00:53.139 --> 03:00:55.720
top level comments by score,

19
03:00:57.029 --> 03:00:58.560
they'd be in there

20
03:00:59.069 --> 03:01:00.549
story sections

21
03:01:02.419 --> 03:01:03.099
and

22
03:01:05.110 --> 03:01:11.209
possibility of continuing to vote on individual stories

23
03:01:16.339 --> 03:01:17.129
to sort

24
03:01:19.959 --> 03:01:20.940
comments.

25
03:01:23.650 --> 03:01:27.230
So this would be a pretty big change to the way merged stories get displayed,

26
03:01:29.760 --> 03:01:31.510
but it would make it clear

27
03:01:33.110 --> 03:01:35.220
that they're responding to different

28
03:01:37.889 --> 03:01:38.870
aspects

29
03:01:39.069 --> 03:01:41.389
to different stories under that headline.

30
03:01:41.400 --> 03:01:43.730
If we went with headline as the top level title,

31
03:01:48.260 --> 03:01:50.949
it kind of rolls in a whole bunch of things

32
03:01:51.319 --> 03:01:52.480
and it makes

33
03:01:53.830 --> 03:01:59.160
the line between stories and comments a little permeable

34
03:02:10.089 --> 03:02:10.100
a

35
03:02:10.288 --> 03:02:12.809
while ago. So I've been thinking about this for

36
03:02:14.369 --> 03:02:15.070
Oh man

37
03:02:15.309 --> 03:02:16.630
a while. Uh

38
03:02:17.149 --> 03:02:18.740
Right. So that's the draft

39
03:02:20.440 --> 03:02:24.130
and then this is also there. So if I go to um

40
03:02:25.330 --> 03:02:26.110
Tig

41
03:02:26.270 --> 03:02:27.750
app models link,

42
03:02:30.630 --> 03:02:33.649
I thought about this for a while. But I created this link model

43
03:02:34.580 --> 03:02:34.970
in

44
03:02:36.080 --> 03:02:37.059
July.

45
03:02:37.559 --> 03:02:39.820
Oh, it's been kicking around in my head for at least a year.

46
03:02:43.539 --> 03:02:46.580
And the idea of the link model is

47
03:02:48.369 --> 03:02:49.580
it reads

48
03:02:50.880 --> 03:02:57.690
story texts and it reads comment bodies and it finds all internal and external

49
03:02:58.050 --> 03:02:58.889
links.

50
03:02:59.800 --> 03:03:02.190
And the idea for internal links,

51
03:03:02.589 --> 03:03:05.610
it figures out the the foreign key relationship.

52
03:03:06.630 --> 03:03:08.699
There's a fucking mosquito.

53
03:03:11.009 --> 03:03:12.210
I don't know if I got

54
03:03:13.029 --> 03:03:13.050
it.

55
03:03:15.139 --> 03:03:15.960
Excuse me,

56
03:03:17.440 --> 03:03:20.660
as if I don't have enough software bugs, I have actual bugs.

57
03:03:24.050 --> 03:03:24.710
So

58
03:03:27.059 --> 03:03:28.000
there it is

59
03:03:42.270 --> 03:03:43.550
this link model,

60
03:03:44.600 --> 03:03:46.830
I want to use it to

61
03:03:46.949 --> 03:03:48.500
interlink, comment

62
03:03:49.500 --> 03:03:52.080
to interlink stories and comments a bit

63
03:03:52.619 --> 03:03:55.779
so that you might even see metadata on a comment.

64
03:03:56.639 --> 03:03:57.500
So if

65
03:03:58.679 --> 03:04:04.660
what are we up to Carol? If Carol leaves a comment in February about

66
03:04:04.970 --> 03:04:05.720
mock

67
03:04:06.740 --> 03:04:07.570
and then

68
03:04:08.059 --> 03:04:09.320
in July,

69
03:04:10.240 --> 03:04:11.940
Dave writes a comment

70
03:04:12.720 --> 03:04:14.970
and happens to link to Carol's.

71
03:04:16.029 --> 03:04:19.119
It would be nice if looking at Carol's comment

72
03:04:21.618 --> 03:04:25.428
showed you that there was a later response in another story

73
03:04:25.808 --> 03:04:26.598
from Dave

74
03:04:27.260 --> 03:04:28.019
or

75
03:04:28.529 --> 03:04:30.600
not necessarily a response, a reference.

76
03:04:31.500 --> 03:04:33.760
And so that would be nice for internal links.

77
03:04:33.769 --> 03:04:36.589
And I'm slowly working towards that functionality.

78
03:04:38.980 --> 03:04:40.799
But the other part of it is

79
03:04:42.450 --> 03:04:43.649
it pulls out

80
03:04:43.760 --> 03:04:45.910
external links as well.

81
03:04:46.549 --> 03:04:49.750
So if a comment links off to

82
03:04:51.720 --> 03:04:54.929
uh actually let's just go right back to our working example.

83
03:04:58.309 --> 03:05:02.730
This comment has an associated link record in the database,

84
03:05:02.739 --> 03:05:04.929
we don't do anything with it yet, but it's there

85
03:05:06.160 --> 03:05:07.700
that links to this

86
03:05:10.230 --> 03:05:13.649
and I think there's a, there might be,

87
03:05:13.850 --> 03:05:15.480
since this story was submitted,

88
03:05:17.839 --> 03:05:23.540
I might have tweaked the story submission form to look for those and say, hey,

89
03:05:23.959 --> 03:05:25.220
actually, yeah, I did,

90
03:05:26.140 --> 03:05:27.250
I did, didn't I,

91
03:05:28.130 --> 03:05:29.660
where is it? Um

92
03:05:34.220 --> 03:05:34.760
Yeah,

93
03:05:35.390 --> 03:05:39.029
so when checking to see if someone is submitting a duplicate URL,

94
03:05:40.049 --> 03:05:41.799
I checked to see if they're,

95
03:05:41.880 --> 03:05:46.540
they are um linking to something that was recently in the comments

96
03:05:47.040 --> 03:05:47.809
and

97
03:05:48.230 --> 03:05:49.589
you

98
03:05:49.790 --> 03:05:50.059
what

99
03:05:51.190 --> 03:05:51.309
war

100
03:05:51.470 --> 03:05:51.489
per

101
03:05:54.839 --> 03:05:57.540
and then they get this message that says, hey,

102
03:05:58.160 --> 03:05:59.299
this comment

103
03:06:00.959 --> 03:06:05.100
just time ago in words, which might be 10 minutes or two days.

104
03:06:07.380 --> 03:06:09.279
Also linked to this story,

105
03:06:09.970 --> 03:06:13.489
please grow the existing discussion rather than splitting up the discussion.

106
03:06:13.529 --> 03:06:16.950
Adding a comment will bump it to the top of the active stories because

107
03:06:16.959 --> 03:06:20.119
I wanted people to see you're going to get the exposure you want.

108
03:06:20.309 --> 03:06:21.179
If you re respond,

109
03:06:21.519 --> 03:06:22.709
if you reply

110
03:06:22.950 --> 03:06:24.839
to the link that has already been submitted,

111
03:06:24.850 --> 03:06:27.679
instead of trying to use a story as a super reply.

112
03:06:28.510 --> 03:06:31.010
And this one has been a minute, right?

113
03:06:31.750 --> 03:06:32.329
So

114
03:06:33.899 --> 03:06:35.220
to blame

115
03:06:35.410 --> 03:06:38.750
analog app views stories

116
03:06:39.130 --> 03:06:40.600
form errors.

117
03:06:42.420 --> 03:06:44.149
So this one has been there

118
03:06:45.549 --> 03:06:46.399
two months

119
03:06:48.399 --> 03:06:49.450
and so

120
03:06:50.000 --> 03:06:51.450
let's jump over to live.

121
03:06:52.619 --> 03:06:55.130
It's a good time to check in to see if

122
03:06:56.820 --> 03:06:58.809
there have been fewer

123
03:06:59.049 --> 03:07:00.209
merges

124
03:07:01.119 --> 03:07:02.640
in the last two months because of it.

125
03:07:16.380 --> 03:07:17.220
I need a kill.

126
03:07:28.790 --> 03:07:31.040
The numbers might be low enough that there's nothing

127
03:07:31.660 --> 03:07:32.769
clear here,

128
03:07:33.709 --> 03:07:34.130
but

129
03:07:36.390 --> 03:07:36.929
we'll see.

130
03:07:52.510 --> 03:07:56.549
So over the weeks of the year. Here's how many we have?

131
03:07:58.260 --> 03:08:00.709
124, 14

132
03:08:01.679 --> 03:08:07.079
and then what it was eight weeks ago. 12345678.

133
03:08:08.390 --> 03:08:11.070
I don't see a strong pattern popping out at me.

134
03:08:11.149 --> 03:08:14.170
The numbers on either side of the date look pretty samey.

135
03:08:23.950 --> 03:08:26.799
Yeah, the numbers are small enough. It's not worth trying to, uh,

136
03:08:27.940 --> 03:08:30.140
work towards any kind of epistemic rigor,

137
03:08:30.279 --> 03:08:32.500
but it's the kind of small

138
03:08:32.770 --> 03:08:34.190
nudge change

139
03:08:36.268 --> 03:08:38.087
that I hope has an effect like that.

140
03:08:44.270 --> 03:08:44.729
All right.

141
03:08:46.200 --> 03:08:47.570
So Jay Mivan,

142
03:08:51.859 --> 03:08:53.039
you said

143
03:08:53.359 --> 03:08:54.880
over here in the scratch

144
03:08:55.840 --> 03:08:57.919
seems like it nips that in the bud it does.

145
03:08:59.750 --> 03:09:01.409
Oh Were there missing rows at the end?

146
03:09:05.590 --> 03:09:06.330
Wait a minute.

147
03:09:13.859 --> 03:09:15.039
Oh, you're right.

148
03:09:15.679 --> 03:09:17.799
I missed it. There's no 44.

149
03:09:21.229 --> 03:09:22.760
Well, maybe it did work then

150
03:09:23.969 --> 03:09:25.340
49 there's only one

151
03:09:27.150 --> 03:09:31.039
like some of this is gonna be really influenced by if something spicy happened.

152
03:09:31.500 --> 03:09:31.960
But

153
03:09:33.219 --> 03:09:38.080
you're right. These are contiguous and there is a gap here. So we had a zero

154
03:09:45.000 --> 03:09:46.780
uh oh and 48 is missing.

155
03:09:47.630 --> 03:09:48.289
OK.

156
03:09:48.929 --> 03:09:49.570
That's,

157
03:09:49.890 --> 03:09:51.929
that's enough that I'm gonna tip it over to say,

158
03:09:52.570 --> 03:09:57.809
yeah, it did improve the situation. I am doing fewer merges since adding that,

159
03:09:58.789 --> 03:09:59.330
you know,

160
03:09:59.400 --> 03:10:02.150
I'm not gonna try and pretend that there's enough data

161
03:10:02.159 --> 03:10:04.330
here to have any kind of rigor on it.

162
03:10:06.130 --> 03:10:09.650
But as you know, like a stick your finger in the wind kind of thing.

163
03:10:09.659 --> 03:10:10.609
Yeah, it helped a little.

164
03:10:11.869 --> 03:10:13.809
That's great. Thank you for catching that. A Rh

165
03:10:18.289 --> 03:10:18.869
So

166
03:10:23.679 --> 03:10:26.859
Jay Mivan, you pointed out that this week also seems common.

167
03:10:26.989 --> 03:10:29.619
It shows up a bunch in descriptions

168
03:10:30.489 --> 03:10:31.549
because

169
03:10:34.419 --> 03:10:37.799
I'm trying to explain what the behavior is

170
03:10:38.580 --> 03:10:40.719
merged into other intro from this week,

171
03:10:44.559 --> 03:10:47.020
merging this week's rust async stories,

172
03:10:48.190 --> 03:10:49.940
this week's terraform story.

173
03:10:51.000 --> 03:10:51.770
So

174
03:10:53.900 --> 03:10:56.200
some of what's happening is

175
03:10:57.510 --> 03:11:01.989
I am trying to explain people to people what the merging rules are.

176
03:11:02.679 --> 03:11:04.020
And when I say

177
03:11:06.940 --> 03:11:09.760
this week, at least people can figure out, oh,

178
03:11:09.770 --> 03:11:12.940
I should expect that stories will get merged in the span of a week.

179
03:11:13.400 --> 03:11:16.500
And when I reiterate what that rule is,

180
03:11:16.650 --> 03:11:18.359
those individuals

181
03:11:18.520 --> 03:11:23.619
who submitted the merge story are a little less likely to do it again, not

182
03:11:24.000 --> 03:11:26.719
100% likely, but fairly less.

183
03:11:27.590 --> 03:11:32.690
And then also people can see it in the mod log and go oh It's a this week kind of thing.

184
03:11:35.599 --> 03:11:37.380
Some of these are

185
03:11:45.799 --> 03:11:50.890
a big news story happens that carries on for weeks and the uh

186
03:11:51.799 --> 03:11:53.690
because I merged stories

187
03:11:53.979 --> 03:11:56.979
that are submitted within a week of the original.

188
03:11:57.429 --> 03:12:00.169
Well, eight days later, it's time for a new thread.

189
03:12:00.179 --> 03:12:03.450
And so that's why you see the this week's story a bunch

190
03:12:10.859 --> 03:12:12.799
and I wrote Pin in this.

191
03:12:20.030 --> 03:12:21.479
What do we call them here? Like

192
03:12:21.820 --> 03:12:25.229
merged candidates submitted are

193
03:12:26.909 --> 03:12:28.799
within a week of

194
03:12:29.030 --> 03:12:29.960
original

195
03:12:31.059 --> 03:12:32.020
get merged

196
03:12:34.770 --> 03:12:36.190
after a week.

197
03:12:37.809 --> 03:12:39.489
Why am I doing the arrow thing here

198
03:12:40.809 --> 03:12:42.309
after a week?

199
03:12:44.000 --> 03:12:45.000
The first

200
03:12:45.619 --> 03:12:46.419
next

201
03:12:46.539 --> 03:12:48.219
story is

202
03:12:49.479 --> 03:12:51.409
the target for future

203
03:12:52.190 --> 03:12:52.780
merges.

204
03:12:57.349 --> 03:12:58.169
This is

205
03:12:59.789 --> 03:13:01.369
mostly good.

206
03:13:01.690 --> 03:13:04.650
So like there is a limit to how often we're

207
03:13:04.659 --> 03:13:07.760
gonna merge stories and we don't wanna merge forever.

208
03:13:07.770 --> 03:13:09.090
And there's kind of

209
03:13:09.219 --> 03:13:09.229
a

210
03:13:11.770 --> 03:13:13.390
kind of a balance.

211
03:13:13.659 --> 03:13:18.200
Yeah. Well, not kind of, there is a balance happening here between

212
03:13:19.650 --> 03:13:22.030
keeping discussions together

213
03:13:22.400 --> 03:13:23.429
and exposure

214
03:13:27.010 --> 03:13:29.020
a hassle though is

215
03:13:35.159 --> 03:13:38.780
site traffic is strongly cyclical.

216
03:13:40.729 --> 03:13:43.669
We've seen it in a few quarries on the stream here where

217
03:13:43.679 --> 03:13:47.140
Monday is the busiest and then Tuesday is almost as busy.

218
03:13:47.150 --> 03:13:50.750
You know, Wednesday falls off. Thursday falls off Friday, falls off

219
03:13:51.260 --> 03:13:53.700
and then Saturday, Sunday are

220
03:13:54.940 --> 03:13:56.440
what 20%

221
03:13:56.700 --> 03:13:57.559
of Monday.

222
03:13:57.739 --> 03:13:58.520
So, you know,

223
03:13:59.020 --> 03:13:59.799
it's like

224
03:14:01.049 --> 03:14:05.820
a gentle slope and then clunk down to Saturday, Sunday and jump back up for Monday.

225
03:14:08.200 --> 03:14:08.729
This is,

226
03:14:09.679 --> 03:14:14.090
this is every site, by the way, almost everybody looks like this unless you know,

227
03:14:14.679 --> 03:14:16.580
you have a Taco Tuesday restaurant,

228
03:14:17.890 --> 03:14:19.030
everybody looks like this.

229
03:14:23.119 --> 03:14:27.599
So when a real interesting story is submitted on a Thursday,

230
03:14:28.520 --> 03:14:32.830
it gets about a day and a half of strong discussion and then a little over the weekend

231
03:14:34.099 --> 03:14:35.440
and then Monday,

232
03:14:36.809 --> 03:14:38.169
Monday is a new

233
03:14:38.320 --> 03:14:39.190
week

234
03:14:39.760 --> 03:14:42.549
with a lot more traffic than Thursday had.

235
03:14:42.799 --> 03:14:46.330
And so the Monday submitter may not even be aware of the

236
03:14:46.340 --> 03:14:50.429
Thursday story because it's certainly fallen off the home page by then.

237
03:14:51.690 --> 03:14:54.929
It may even have fallen off s slash active by

238
03:14:54.940 --> 03:14:57.710
then because the week is so weekend is so quiet

239
03:15:17.710 --> 03:15:18.520
Thursday.

240
03:15:33.250 --> 03:15:34.030
So

241
03:15:34.320 --> 03:15:35.659
this is also

242
03:15:39.059 --> 03:15:40.070
a little

243
03:15:41.450 --> 03:15:43.830
hard for mods to keep track of.

244
03:15:45.599 --> 03:15:49.130
So story merging only happens in 1% of the time,

245
03:15:49.500 --> 03:15:52.250
maybe less now that I put in that link model.

246
03:15:55.109 --> 03:15:58.690
But I have a mental list of stories I've seen in the last week

247
03:16:01.890 --> 03:16:06.590
and especially when it's something like Thursday to next Wednesday,

248
03:16:06.679 --> 03:16:09.539
people seem especially surprised by the merge.

249
03:16:12.710 --> 03:16:13.869
So maybe

250
03:16:14.090 --> 03:16:15.690
story merging

251
03:16:16.960 --> 03:16:17.799
week

252
03:16:18.020 --> 03:16:21.020
should be a calendar week.

253
03:16:27.929 --> 03:16:30.219
It's something I've been kind of kicking around in my head

254
03:16:30.349 --> 03:16:32.309
and especially riding a doc,

255
03:16:35.030 --> 03:16:35.039
a

256
03:16:35.200 --> 03:16:36.919
big part of

257
03:16:37.190 --> 03:16:42.530
rules is they have to be predictable. Someone has to be able to look at

258
03:16:43.500 --> 03:16:47.320
an action they're considering and run the rules in their head

259
03:16:47.849 --> 03:16:50.039
and say, am I about to break a rule

260
03:16:51.109 --> 03:16:55.840
and hopefully they do that and hopefully for them, the incentive is follow the rule,

261
03:16:55.849 --> 03:16:57.809
not get a thrill out of breaking the rule.

262
03:17:00.750 --> 03:17:03.760
But it is really hard for anybody who doesn't

263
03:17:03.859 --> 03:17:08.520
really closely read the site like a moderator or a

264
03:17:08.839 --> 03:17:10.348
major power user

265
03:17:11.140 --> 03:17:11.790
that

266
03:17:15.660 --> 03:17:17.459
they won't know

267
03:17:17.810 --> 03:17:20.790
234 days later,

268
03:17:22.520 --> 03:17:25.858
especially if there's the weekend in the middle. I mean,

269
03:17:29.459 --> 03:17:33.689
part of my goal for the week is weekend is to not think too hard about

270
03:17:34.130 --> 03:17:35.199
the work day, right?

271
03:17:36.630 --> 03:17:38.130
And kinda reset,

272
03:17:38.510 --> 03:17:39.410
refresh,

273
03:17:39.699 --> 03:17:40.819
come back clean.

274
03:17:48.489 --> 03:17:50.430
Uh not a lot easier, but it is

275
03:17:50.680 --> 03:17:54.189
easier to explain, more likely to be seen,

276
03:17:54.430 --> 03:17:56.109
builds on natural

277
03:17:57.319 --> 03:17:57.859
rhythm.

278
03:18:00.010 --> 03:18:01.469
So this would be a change,

279
03:18:02.550 --> 03:18:06.839
but it's one of those places uh like that book Badass by Cathy Sa

280
03:18:07.060 --> 03:18:09.089
that I keep referencing where

281
03:18:09.910 --> 03:18:12.750
if you can't understand what's happening,

282
03:18:14.189 --> 03:18:15.540
people can't

283
03:18:17.800 --> 03:18:20.479
understand it and feel competent and

284
03:18:20.719 --> 03:18:24.890
follow the best practice and do the good thing and be their best self.

285
03:18:28.130 --> 03:18:28.699
So

286
03:18:31.750 --> 03:18:34.969
that's about the end of the topics that I had to talk about.

287
03:18:36.410 --> 03:18:38.670
This has been lobster's office hours.

288
03:18:38.979 --> 03:18:41.589
If you have questions about this,

289
03:18:43.540 --> 03:18:44.770
feel free to pipe up.

290
03:18:46.000 --> 03:18:47.180
And when I say this, I mean,

291
03:18:47.189 --> 03:18:50.030
either the story merging stuff we've done or anything else on

292
03:18:50.040 --> 03:18:52.099
the site because I'm coming here to the end of the stream

293
03:18:53.209 --> 03:18:56.219
and I will take this spreadsheet

294
03:18:57.589 --> 03:18:59.250
and I will

295
03:18:59.630 --> 03:19:02.489
attach it to the stream archive page.

296
03:19:02.949 --> 03:19:04.329
So this is the

297
03:19:05.260 --> 03:19:08.859
20 24-12 dash nine stream.

298
03:19:10.400 --> 03:19:10.939
And

299
03:19:11.969 --> 03:19:17.030
I will tie in this TSV file if you want to download it and play around with it.

300
03:19:17.040 --> 03:19:21.260
You're very welcome to because I want the site to be able to understand itself.

301
03:19:23.819 --> 03:19:27.000
And if you wanna look at this and figure out,

302
03:19:27.729 --> 03:19:27.750
oh,

303
03:19:27.760 --> 03:19:30.589
maybe we do want to go through the other 350

304
03:19:30.599 --> 03:19:33.339
you can pipe up and tell me that very explicitly.

305
03:19:34.040 --> 03:19:35.810
Otherwise I think

306
03:19:36.060 --> 03:19:39.920
I've categorized enough to feel like we've seen all of stuff.

307
03:19:41.020 --> 03:19:41.780
Weird. Why did

308
03:19:42.199 --> 03:19:44.319
so this one is obviously response. What's going up?

309
03:19:45.140 --> 03:19:45.520
All right,

310
03:19:48.390 --> 03:19:49.910
there must have been a case against

311
03:19:50.180 --> 03:19:50.619
op

312
03:19:50.910 --> 03:19:52.400
and then it got these two responses.

313
03:19:53.280 --> 03:19:56.989
It is so hard not to rabbit hole looking at this stuff because it's like, oh,

314
03:19:57.449 --> 03:19:59.390
it's a whole list of things I'm interested in.

315
03:20:00.030 --> 03:20:03.180
I'm just scrolling past 700 things that are all pretty neat.

316
03:20:07.760 --> 03:20:09.430
Github has sold us out.

317
03:20:10.270 --> 03:20:10.780
Ok.

318
03:20:12.130 --> 03:20:15.310
Speaking of hot takes, sometimes you can spot them from the title.

319
03:20:20.390 --> 03:20:23.069
All right. Well, thanks very much for hanging out.

320
03:20:24.260 --> 03:20:24.920
Uh

321
03:20:25.550 --> 03:20:25.979
Folks.

322
03:20:25.989 --> 03:20:29.400
I really appreciate that some of you were helping

323
03:20:29.410 --> 03:20:32.079
read over my shoulder and helping categorize them.

324
03:20:32.089 --> 03:20:33.160
You all asked. Uh

325
03:20:34.810 --> 03:20:35.640
Either you caught

326
03:20:35.949 --> 03:20:39.780
useful errors and distinctions or you asked really good questions that get

327
03:20:39.920 --> 03:20:39.949
at

328
03:20:40.640 --> 03:20:41.819
what's going on here.

329
03:20:44.199 --> 03:20:47.800
And then hopefully we can on the next stream,

330
03:20:48.160 --> 03:20:50.380
take all of this stuff that

331
03:20:51.430 --> 03:20:53.119
we figured out from

332
03:20:54.180 --> 03:20:59.040
the site's history and me getting forced to brain dump, what I am

333
03:20:59.170 --> 03:21:03.099
actually doing from the gut and put it into words

334
03:21:03.630 --> 03:21:05.579
and we can write up something that is

335
03:21:05.920 --> 03:21:08.430
much more helpful and much clearer

336
03:21:09.150 --> 03:21:10.689
and much easier to follow.

337
03:21:12.119 --> 03:21:16.829
And once that's written up, maybe that becomes a, all right.

338
03:21:16.839 --> 03:21:18.579
Well, we could improve the U I,

339
03:21:19.479 --> 03:21:21.250
we can improve the practice

340
03:21:24.349 --> 03:21:25.270
and uh

341
03:21:25.579 --> 03:21:26.780
very hopefully

342
03:21:27.750 --> 03:21:30.890
we could do that. Uh oh, I didn't paste it in here. But the uh

343
03:21:31.709 --> 03:21:34.780
the stories controller thing that we keep coming back to,

344
03:21:35.750 --> 03:21:38.869
like I had been kicking around that around in my head, but since I wrote up the github

345
03:21:39.040 --> 03:21:40.060
issue for it,

346
03:21:40.410 --> 03:21:44.660
I just keep seeing things like the moderator, editing their own story.

347
03:21:44.670 --> 03:21:48.219
That's like, oh yeah. Well, if we cleaned up the controller that wouldn't happen.

348
03:21:50.699 --> 03:21:51.189
All right.

349
03:21:53.729 --> 03:21:55.219
Well, given no

350
03:21:55.390 --> 03:21:57.609
questions. I'm gonna roll out.

351
03:21:59.369 --> 03:22:02.699
Thank you all very much for tuning in and I will see

352
03:22:02.709 --> 03:22:07.140
you Thursday morning for our next regularly scheduled lobster's office hours.

353
03:22:07.150 --> 03:22:08.660
But feel free to

354
03:22:09.209 --> 03:22:15.219
message me on the site or email me or grab me on Irc or whatever is handy.

355
03:22:16.479 --> 03:22:18.170
Talk to you later, take care.