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Hey, folks.

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Pardon? Starting a minute late.

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Oh,

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that was me. Almost spilling my nice big glass of water across my entire desk.

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Wouldn't that have been a great distracting way

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to start stream when I'm already running late.

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Oh, boy,

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give me one second. It's only a splash. But if I get it

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off of shit,

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here we go.

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All right.

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Hello. Hello?

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Yeah, it was very,

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I don't know if that came through on the mic, but you might have heard the whole,

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like pint glass of water wobbling on the surface of the wooden desk.

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I, uh,

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was moving something out of the way and caught it and it,

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it thought about tipping over

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and

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just barely didn't, it probably would have gone straight into the keyboard too.

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Oh,

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boy.

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Luckily,

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you know,

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even that wouldn't be the end of the

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world because there are several spare keyboards around.

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I got into, um,

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mechanical keyboards. Gosh, I don't know,

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seven years ago. So I've soldered a few.

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I'm not sure there's one within arm's reach that uses Cordy though.

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Yeah,

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it's been a couple of years but I was using the

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Norman layout

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and it's lovely. But

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I never did get the, uh,

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it,

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the speed back.

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So

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let's not allow that

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guess I missed closing something there.

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I don't know if the, uh,

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five seconds of rock came through there.

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All that aside.

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Nice to see you for C Django Mandalorian and then for everybody else.

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This is the lobster's office hours stream where

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twice a week I

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take any kind of questions that folks have about the site, the community,

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the code base.

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And

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when folks don't have stuff, I work on the site usually that's code.

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But my plan for the day

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absent questions is more

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writing,

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which is why this stream started 20 minutes late. There was the

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big meta topic last week around

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the brave browser. I just left a comment that

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is about that and

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I'm just not a particularly fast writer, especially when I'm trying to

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be clear about contentious stuff.

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So I was working on that comment and then working and

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working and working and I realized it was just gonna be

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better to pause the stream than wait another

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couple of hours

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cause it's already been a couple of days of

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reflecting on it.

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So that's about that.

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How are folks doing?

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I see a lot of familiar names in the um

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the user list. Thanks for coming back.

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Although I understand it's rude in twitch to call individuals out.

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So I won't,

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my, my general plan was to talk about story merging,

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which has come up on the stream a couple of times.

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I guess that's part of why it's in my head

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is

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maybe three streams ago. We talked a little about the U I of story merging, which is

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this item here.

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But I've got a couple of um

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couple of reasons I think it's worth spending some more time on

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story merging.

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Uh

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Yeah, we can just here. I can find the link real fast.

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It's whatever my last comment was, which the Threads page should have.

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Some were down here,

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many big threats. It's this one I'm talking about. So let me grab this link.

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Oh, yeah. What is this? Like 600 words?

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Yeah, I learned in college writing papers

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that I could write

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a good paper at a rate. Almost exactly one page per hour.

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So

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if I had a five page paper to write,

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I could just block off five hours and I would write it and it was always,

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always that amount of time and I would get really good grades on papers. Uh,

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that was pretty consistent but then just

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I am such a slow writer

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when I'm going for quality. Uh,

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obviously silly comments. I can bang out pretty fast. But having worked with

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professional journalists, I mean,

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I was a professional journalist at the Washington Post but like

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I did,

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I built sites that went along with news

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stories rather than directly writing articles myself.

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And,

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yeah, I guess the other thing I did that was journalism was, I built the, uh,

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the Tech Crunch job board and did some other stuff in the early days of Tech Crunch.

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I had a contract with the New York Times that didn't work out

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anyways. Uh, I gotta get in gear. I'm, I'm

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distracting. Um,

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but I was always impressed by

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the,

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the pros journalists will call them who could just bang out stories so fast

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because I would look at the stuff they would write and I'd be like, oh,

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that would take me

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two hours to write and they'd write it in literally 15 minutes.

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Professional writers. Pretty cool.

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Ah, hey Jay Ivan,

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that's part Biss Sandra. Welcome back, folks. Nice to see so many familiar faces.

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I didn't actually expect that for lobsters hours that there would be,

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you know, a nice little

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core group that returns, but that's been super pleasant actually.

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So

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absent

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meta stuff. The other meta stuff is story merging.

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I had talked a little, oh,

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because it's such a usual stream fixture.

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I should maybe mention there's been no movement

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on any whole request since the last stream.

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So I'm just not even gonna go there.

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The

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this bug that we talked about on stream a

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little while ago and I'll throw the link and chat

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was kind of funny because

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let's, let's actually have that open on a tab for an example of story emerging

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because not that guy.

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Which one was it?

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Yes.

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Not this thread.

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Didn't I put it in my notes.

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Yes.

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So this comment

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is where I did a big write up of story merging a while ago.

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And

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let's get rid of that highlighting for contrast, the,

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the funny bit that popped out at me was saying, oh,

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if the saving feature doesn't work properly on merge stories,

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that's a bug and please file it.

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And if saving is broken prob hiding probably is as well. So I wrote that

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September of 2019

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and then

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August. So almost exactly five years later, we had this bug reported that.

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Oh yeah, if you hide a story, it doesn't actually hide all the comments on the story.

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So the

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uh the gist of

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the way story merging works is it's kind of a bug factory.

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So here's a really small example of merging stories where

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there was an official blog post and then also someone submitted.

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Um I think

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Keygen created this fair source thing. These were the

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two things.

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So they announced that they were becoming fair source

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and then they created this fair source group.

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So

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since they were the

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same topic from the same company, I merged the two stories together.

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And so you can kind of see an example of,

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well, there's two headlines

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and then

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this text is a little funny

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and then if we dig down

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somewhere in the ah

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yeah.

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So like here's some comments from the merged Story,

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they get this icon on the front and they have the title of the story on the right.

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And if you're just skimming along it, especially for the top level comments.

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So like this one,

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a consistent thing that comes up is basically people miss this U I,

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they don't notice this title.

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And so

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actually this is a great example because this person says, 02 years,

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so they are responding to something that is in the article.

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But if you're just browsing this story,

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it's not super clear which of the two links they're responding to

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people just

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they missed this part of it.

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And this U I

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is not super useful inside of a story

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because

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so we reuse this template for comments and

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every place that we print comments, we use this template.

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So this links to the story, but on a merged story, this just kind of like

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links to the page and it tells you it's merged,

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but it's not clear. Oh If you want to understand

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why this person is saying two years, you have to click the second link, not the first.

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So the way

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merging is implemented a

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note before you forget.

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Oh,

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they're waiting for a coming to the pull request.

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That's that's worth interrupting for

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cause otherwise, I was just gonna go into um

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story emerging for pretty much the whole time. So,

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all right. So there was this, I reviewed it.

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Oh That's great.

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How, how long was that sitting? That I missed it?

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Two weeks? Oh man,

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I must have clicked in and accidentally cleared that little

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blue line that notes that it's new and then I just never looked back.

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Uh It's indenting a good idea.

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Honestly, people miss the indented

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message for

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editing titles.

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Let's find that code to refer to it.

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We use that before. Aren't that? So that's over in

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location. Js has the

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what is it called? Delimiter?

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No

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separator.

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Yeah, here we go.

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The uh check story title has a really simple bit of code

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that just says

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if you see one of these punctuations,

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the dash,

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the colon

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and then like the N dash, the M dash

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A pipe A dot A different dot or the word by.

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We're probably seeing a title where someone

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uh

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that was automatically fetched from the page and it's something like

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cool things in Python pipe blog by Alice Smith.

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And we don't include the blog by Alice Smith

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on the end of titles. It's just a style issue.

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And

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so there's this really simple title reminder that says,

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hey, look, if we have one of those, just

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that is the best time

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to tell people

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this, which is what is that over in the story form.

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Yeah,

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it says

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please remove extraneous com components from titles such as

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the name of the site blog section and author.

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This is pretty much lifted from the story guidelines,

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but those appear below the story

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and they don't show up

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all of the time. Usually the the guidelines are collapsed.

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So it's

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deliberately echoing that text.

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How does that answer?

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See

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Yah Warman is kind of

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implicitly asking what the message should be here.

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So speaking of slow writing.

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Yeah. So

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the thing that I wanna see out of this message is

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that it is clear to the submitter

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that we just replaced the thing they pasted

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because so

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uh their example here even is

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kind of similar like it's a short Euro, but it's

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very often the

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the

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last part of the URL that has changed.

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So here it's just a trailing slash, but sometimes it's a

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dot html or a dot PHP or a something else

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way out at the end of the URL.

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And when I say way out at the end, I mean, some URL s are so long, it's

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off to the side in the box

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00:18:59,729 --> 00:19:00,540
and

268
00:19:00,869 --> 00:19:06,430
when people are tabbing along in this form, the next field title is right below.

269
00:19:06,449 --> 00:19:09,979
And as soon as they out focus this title typically within,

270
00:19:10,930 --> 00:19:13,310
I mean, it it depends on how fast the

271
00:19:14,209 --> 00:19:19,920
we can round trip to the target server, but typically in like 50 or 100 milliseconds,

272
00:19:19,930 --> 00:19:21,329
we prefill the title.

273
00:19:21,540 --> 00:19:22,500
So people's

274
00:19:22,949 --> 00:19:24,229
eyes tend to

275
00:19:24,430 --> 00:19:28,030
like just snap down to that next line of the form.

276
00:19:28,130 --> 00:19:32,260
And so they're going to be looking away specifically from the URL

277
00:19:32,589 --> 00:19:33,310
and

278
00:19:34,650 --> 00:19:38,290
when the human eye moves from one place to another,

279
00:19:38,300 --> 00:19:42,229
unless it's tracking a moving object, it moves in what's called A CCA.

280
00:19:45,060 --> 00:19:47,170
That's actually pretty cool topic if you don't know it.

281
00:19:56,910 --> 00:19:57,650
So

282
00:19:58,709 --> 00:19:59,670
the eye

283
00:20:00,880 --> 00:20:02,900
basically snaps around.

284
00:20:04,770 --> 00:20:06,579
Yeah. So it's saying what I was saying of

285
00:20:07,189 --> 00:20:10,540
if it's following something that's moving smoothly, the eyes move smoothly,

286
00:20:10,550 --> 00:20:15,420
but otherwise the eyes do a quick simultaneous movement of both eyes.

287
00:20:16,560 --> 00:20:19,540
So when people are looking from the URL,

288
00:20:19,550 --> 00:20:22,500
they just pasted and then they snap down to the movement.

289
00:20:22,750 --> 00:20:24,790
I'm not gonna read the whole Wikipedia page to you.

290
00:20:24,800 --> 00:20:27,430
But the useful thing to know there is

291
00:20:27,979 --> 00:20:31,270
people are functionally blind when they are Cicada

292
00:20:32,790 --> 00:20:35,010
and you can see this yourself.

293
00:20:35,689 --> 00:20:36,569
So

294
00:20:40,520 --> 00:20:41,540
is there a way of

295
00:20:44,310 --> 00:20:46,780
I'm never gonna have a diagram. Let's make a terrible diagram.

296
00:20:48,660 --> 00:20:51,239
This is one of those, this is a little bit like that. Um

297
00:20:54,010 --> 00:20:56,959
What was it called? Uh the card test

298
00:20:57,650 --> 00:21:00,540
that I did. That's an example on screen a month or two ago

299
00:21:01,119 --> 00:21:01,839
of,

300
00:21:02,219 --> 00:21:05,920
can you recognize which of these cards to flip over in a logic test?

301
00:21:09,930 --> 00:21:12,709
Uh B Sandro? I think you're thinking of um

302
00:21:13,569 --> 00:21:15,020
like Pariah Dola

303
00:21:15,439 --> 00:21:16,250
or

304
00:21:17,550 --> 00:21:21,380
which is when people see faces in things or then there's another one,

305
00:21:21,390 --> 00:21:22,209
I'm not remembering

306
00:21:23,130 --> 00:21:23,750
um

307
00:21:24,670 --> 00:21:26,130
less tracking. Um

308
00:21:59,239 --> 00:22:04,380
I'm not sure I understand what you're asking well enough to say if it's the same thing

309
00:22:04,689 --> 00:22:05,489
because,

310
00:22:06,430 --> 00:22:09,170
you know, I read about this stuff because I think it's neat.

311
00:22:09,180 --> 00:22:12,209
I'm not any kind of expert on the brain or

312
00:22:13,260 --> 00:22:14,199
the visual thing.

313
00:22:17,000 --> 00:22:18,260
So as an example

314
00:22:21,420 --> 00:22:23,709
let's see. Let's make some art, ask you art about it.

315
00:22:28,800 --> 00:22:29,530
All right.

316
00:22:30,699 --> 00:22:31,150
So

317
00:22:33,989 --> 00:22:35,869
yeah. OK. So this is a

318
00:22:36,619 --> 00:22:38,199
ask your art version,

319
00:22:38,489 --> 00:22:40,000
your eyes can't see anything on the move

320
00:22:40,010 --> 00:22:42,239
but your brain can't interrupt the video stream.

321
00:22:42,349 --> 00:22:43,140
You focus on the

322
00:22:48,910 --> 00:22:52,859
that could totally be how it works. But I don't know.

323
00:22:53,900 --> 00:22:56,329
My understanding has been that

324
00:22:57,640 --> 00:23:01,020
when you are Cicada, you generally can't see things

325
00:23:03,000 --> 00:23:07,140
and your brain is just used to it and covers the gap like you

326
00:23:07,150 --> 00:23:09,579
don't notice that you have a blind spot in the middle of your vision.

327
00:23:12,000 --> 00:23:14,150
Oh Yeah, that one about the,

328
00:23:14,369 --> 00:23:17,199
when you first look at a clock, it feels long. Yeah,

329
00:23:17,640 --> 00:23:18,699
I know that one. But

330
00:23:25,670 --> 00:23:27,020
so here's ask the art,

331
00:23:28,680 --> 00:23:29,739
this is you

332
00:23:30,180 --> 00:23:31,060
top down.

333
00:23:32,329 --> 00:23:36,550
So assuming you are not where somewhere someone is gonna give you

334
00:23:36,689 --> 00:23:37,819
weird looks

335
00:23:39,819 --> 00:23:41,839
if you put your arms out

336
00:23:42,079 --> 00:23:43,479
to the left and right.

337
00:23:44,349 --> 00:23:45,060
So uh

338
00:23:46,010 --> 00:23:47,239
that's actually here we go.

339
00:23:55,400 --> 00:23:56,119
Let's get

340
00:23:56,290 --> 00:23:56,300
a

341
00:23:57,510 --> 00:23:58,219
the pipe

342
00:24:00,010 --> 00:24:00,949
and a carrot.

343
00:24:02,569 --> 00:24:07,099
So I want you to always face straight ahead.

344
00:24:07,109 --> 00:24:10,130
Your chin should be pointed directly ahead,

345
00:24:11,020 --> 00:24:12,680
say towards your monitor.

346
00:24:13,270 --> 00:24:17,560
And then if you lift up your left and right arms and you hold them out

347
00:24:18,020 --> 00:24:21,359
and keeping your chin pointed perfectly straightforward,

348
00:24:22,359 --> 00:24:27,420
move your eyes all the way to the left and put your left hand with one finger up.

349
00:24:28,349 --> 00:24:31,449
You can choose your finger, put your hand with one finger up.

350
00:24:31,459 --> 00:24:34,930
So you just see it with your eyes. All the way to the left

351
00:24:35,630 --> 00:24:36,369
and then

352
00:24:36,689 --> 00:24:40,250
put your right hand, keeping your chin forward, do the same thing.

353
00:24:40,260 --> 00:24:42,449
So if you look all the way to your right,

354
00:24:42,459 --> 00:24:44,930
you can just see one finger up on your right hand

355
00:24:45,489 --> 00:24:47,050
without moving your head,

356
00:24:47,729 --> 00:24:49,449
look at your right finger

357
00:24:50,209 --> 00:24:52,319
and then snap your eyes to your left finger.

358
00:24:53,000 --> 00:24:57,180
It is the longest possible CCA you can do all the way from left to right

359
00:24:57,750 --> 00:25:00,810
and it is long enough and slow enough

360
00:25:02,650 --> 00:25:04,380
that you may see

361
00:25:05,910 --> 00:25:08,609
sort of a bit of blackness in the middle and it's not

362
00:25:08,619 --> 00:25:12,609
really blackness because your inner eye is not a movie camera,

363
00:25:13,859 --> 00:25:16,140
but you may realize that in the middle

364
00:25:16,719 --> 00:25:18,689
when you're doing this exceptionally long

365
00:25:18,839 --> 00:25:19,270
CCA,

366
00:25:20,060 --> 00:25:23,729
there's kind of a feeling of blankness, you just don't

367
00:25:24,510 --> 00:25:26,650
see what's in front of you,

368
00:25:26,699 --> 00:25:30,930
which is what you would naively expect if your eyes were tracking from left to right.

369
00:25:31,640 --> 00:25:35,239
And so if something changes in front of you

370
00:25:35,359 --> 00:25:36,060
in that,

371
00:25:37,229 --> 00:25:39,810
I don't know what that's gonna take. I think the longest

372
00:25:39,939 --> 00:25:42,670
CCAS are around 100 milliseconds.

373
00:25:43,479 --> 00:25:46,780
So 1/10 of a second, if something changes right in front of you,

374
00:25:46,790 --> 00:25:47,810
you're not gonna see it.

375
00:25:48,369 --> 00:25:50,579
And there is a smaller version of this

376
00:25:51,400 --> 00:25:53,619
bringing it back to the form where

377
00:25:54,579 --> 00:25:58,760
something appears down here and your vision snaps from the URL down.

378
00:25:58,959 --> 00:26:01,719
And if the URL changes at the same time,

379
00:26:02,189 --> 00:26:05,000
you literally cannot see the change.

380
00:26:08,500 --> 00:26:14,719
So that's why I'm especially careful around forms that change things for people

381
00:26:15,050 --> 00:26:15,760
because

382
00:26:17,880 --> 00:26:20,989
naively, it feels like they're looking straight at it.

383
00:26:23,239 --> 00:26:26,579
But if they are in the process of moving to the next field

384
00:26:26,660 --> 00:26:30,819
or there is an animation happening somewhere else that their attention snaps to,

385
00:26:31,130 --> 00:26:32,900
they are blind to the change.

386
00:26:34,369 --> 00:26:36,589
So that is the very long way of saying I

387
00:26:36,599 --> 00:26:39,589
would like this message to be clear about what happened.

388
00:26:39,890 --> 00:26:40,430
And

389
00:26:42,810 --> 00:26:43,760
so let's say

390
00:27:00,819 --> 00:27:02,959
I would like to say canonical, but

391
00:27:04,130 --> 00:27:05,819
it's jargon that people won't know.

392
00:27:14,819 --> 00:27:17,280
So I'm trying to start with the noun of the

393
00:27:17,290 --> 00:27:20,130
thing you are caring about and we're just thinking about.

394
00:27:58,060 --> 00:27:59,160
Is there a good?

395
00:28:04,270 --> 00:28:06,880
See, I'm just hoping MDN has a page for it.

396
00:28:13,510 --> 00:28:14,189
Is there

397
00:28:14,329 --> 00:28:14,339
a

398
00:28:18,229 --> 00:28:21,069
ah it's kind of a shame this talks about search engines.

399
00:28:21,079 --> 00:28:23,489
That's a little distracting and is not why we use it.

400
00:28:24,300 --> 00:28:25,530
We use it because

401
00:28:27,030 --> 00:28:29,449
uh we use it for a similar reason,

402
00:28:29,459 --> 00:28:31,689
which is there are often many URL S and

403
00:28:31,699 --> 00:28:34,209
we want to avoid getting duplicate URL s submitted.

404
00:28:39,339 --> 00:28:39,750
That is

405
00:28:40,579 --> 00:28:42,170
probably enough.

406
00:28:42,500 --> 00:28:42,939
All right,

407
00:28:51,849 --> 00:28:53,219
let's see if that's reasonable

408
00:28:59,000 --> 00:28:59,160
to will

409
00:28:59,339 --> 00:28:59,390
be

410
00:28:59,719 --> 00:29:00,719
given by the server.

411
00:29:05,489 --> 00:29:06,310
I'd like

412
00:29:07,650 --> 00:29:09,189
the message to start

413
00:29:10,459 --> 00:29:11,540
with the

414
00:29:13,319 --> 00:29:18,069
URL as the subject because it's what the user

415
00:29:20,400 --> 00:29:22,300
was just thinking about.

416
00:29:25,310 --> 00:29:28,170
Explain an active voice

417
00:29:31,400 --> 00:29:32,780
that it was changed

418
00:29:34,010 --> 00:29:39,589
when I say active voice. Uh the URL above. No, but then the server is the subject.

419
00:29:39,599 --> 00:29:40,920
The URL is the object.

420
00:29:41,660 --> 00:29:43,839
Yeah. So I'm not even being grammatical.

421
00:29:59,890 --> 00:29:59,920
Yeah.

422
00:30:02,479 --> 00:30:06,709
And I do try pretty hard to write messages in active voice.

423
00:30:06,719 --> 00:30:09,859
But in this case, I think it's clearest for the user if

424
00:30:11,729 --> 00:30:12,569
they

425
00:30:14,040 --> 00:30:17,060
see the object that they were just paying attention to

426
00:30:19,160 --> 00:30:20,229
anyways. Thank you, Jay Mi

427
00:30:20,489 --> 00:30:22,660
I I appreciate you bringing up the

428
00:30:24,300 --> 00:30:27,150
pr that was hanging around. I didn't realize it was

429
00:30:27,469 --> 00:30:28,640
waiting for attention.

430
00:30:35,880 --> 00:30:38,760
So coming back to story merging,

431
00:30:39,449 --> 00:30:39,959
but

432
00:30:40,140 --> 00:30:41,410
with the reminder that

433
00:30:42,040 --> 00:30:44,530
if you have stuff you would like to talk about on stream,

434
00:30:44,540 --> 00:30:46,930
you can just bring up questions most anytime

435
00:30:47,140 --> 00:30:51,060
I will either stick them in the dock and come back to them in a few minutes or

436
00:30:51,500 --> 00:30:52,660
just jump into them.

437
00:30:57,780 --> 00:31:00,709
So we're talking about how story emerging

438
00:31:01,069 --> 00:31:03,140
there is this feature that's been hanging out

439
00:31:03,780 --> 00:31:04,540
where

440
00:31:05,680 --> 00:31:09,400
users can submit, suggested title changes,

441
00:31:10,099 --> 00:31:13,300
which is very often removing things like

442
00:31:13,599 --> 00:31:15,500
the name of the blog or the author of the

443
00:31:15,510 --> 00:31:18,439
blog because people don't always catch that in line help

444
00:31:20,280 --> 00:31:22,660
or tag editing where they're like. Yeah, you know,

445
00:31:23,760 --> 00:31:25,380
this is about a programming language and

446
00:31:25,390 --> 00:31:27,859
you just tagged programming generally rather than

447
00:31:28,050 --> 00:31:28,900
Python

448
00:31:29,060 --> 00:31:29,780
or

449
00:31:30,010 --> 00:31:30,609
uh

450
00:31:31,180 --> 00:31:32,660
what's the other one that's real common?

451
00:31:36,699 --> 00:31:39,910
Yeah, I'm not sure there is one that's quite as ubiquitous as

452
00:31:40,640 --> 00:31:43,020
folks leaving and stuff that we take out of titles

453
00:31:52,369 --> 00:31:56,979
so users can do that, but they cannot suggest story merges.

454
00:31:58,939 --> 00:31:59,619
And

455
00:32:04,170 --> 00:32:05,780
that one is also it's been

456
00:32:07,550 --> 00:32:09,280
there was a discussion on the site.

457
00:32:09,969 --> 00:32:10,949
I don't think

458
00:32:11,390 --> 00:32:13,069
this one, the other

459
00:32:13,400 --> 00:32:15,739
merging story guy that I clicked by

460
00:32:16,079 --> 00:32:17,449
and I closed it.

461
00:32:18,449 --> 00:32:18,949
But

462
00:32:22,920 --> 00:32:23,709
there's

463
00:32:27,880 --> 00:32:30,380
like in a narrow technical sense,

464
00:32:30,560 --> 00:32:33,989
allowing users to set the merged story ID column is

465
00:32:34,000 --> 00:32:37,160
the exact same functionality as allowing them to suggest title.

466
00:32:39,010 --> 00:32:40,989
And it's just as easy to reverse.

467
00:32:41,949 --> 00:32:48,089
But then like the resulting UU I of merged stories is a little bit clunky and it's not

468
00:32:48,390 --> 00:32:52,130
clear to submitters what that means. We'll talk about that in a minute.

469
00:32:52,920 --> 00:32:55,660
And so I've been reluctant to pick this up even

470
00:32:55,670 --> 00:32:58,939
though it's been an obvious feature for 6.5 years.

471
00:33:01,989 --> 00:33:06,329
And I noted down here today when I was reviewing before the show

472
00:33:06,579 --> 00:33:07,130
that

473
00:33:08,260 --> 00:33:11,930
we talked about the story controller yas application to lean

474
00:33:11,939 --> 00:33:16,369
more into rails by splitting up the story controllers actions

475
00:33:17,189 --> 00:33:17,880
like

476
00:33:18,619 --> 00:33:23,760
allowing users to suggest or allowing mods to edit into their own controllers.

477
00:33:25,510 --> 00:33:29,969
And it would also benefit from the reactor refactor in 1298

478
00:33:30,569 --> 00:33:32,640
which is uh already open. It's

479
00:33:33,469 --> 00:33:36,290
the bug from the bug factory where

480
00:33:37,060 --> 00:33:40,579
a feature does not interact well with story emerging

481
00:33:40,810 --> 00:33:41,729
because

482
00:33:43,380 --> 00:33:44,439
story

483
00:33:44,640 --> 00:33:48,400
merging is implemented as each story has a

484
00:33:48,459 --> 00:33:51,790
column in the database called Merged story ID.

485
00:33:52,780 --> 00:33:57,069
And so the story table and Rails is very table oriented.

486
00:34:00,939 --> 00:34:04,680
It makes the story table kind of equivocate between

487
00:34:04,949 --> 00:34:06,930
whether a story is a

488
00:34:07,040 --> 00:34:09,909
single link or a single text.

489
00:34:12,879 --> 00:34:17,489
And then the alternate thing it could be is a merged story, which might mean

490
00:34:21,699 --> 00:34:25,969
the group of all stories that were submitted to make this one entry,

491
00:34:25,978 --> 00:34:27,918
which is kind of how the URL thinks of it

492
00:34:28,820 --> 00:34:29,679
or

493
00:34:31,678 --> 00:34:35,539
the target for all of those merged story ID columns,

494
00:34:35,549 --> 00:34:39,978
which is again an individual link, but that one that becomes kind of special

495
00:34:41,408 --> 00:34:43,868
and I call it the Bug factory because

496
00:34:44,319 --> 00:34:45,739
as I put it on um

497
00:34:46,678 --> 00:34:48,279
the post

498
00:34:48,447 --> 00:34:52,099
leading up to the stream, if anybody follows me on blue sky or Mastodon

499
00:34:54,580 --> 00:34:59,120
story is a God object and then everything that interacts with it has to

500
00:34:59,129 --> 00:35:03,679
have the complexity of checking the merged story ID column in both directions.

501
00:35:03,689 --> 00:35:06,260
Both is this story merged into others

502
00:35:06,459 --> 00:35:07,080
and

503
00:35:07,199 --> 00:35:09,590
are other stories merged into this?

504
00:35:11,310 --> 00:35:12,939
And then it's not clear.

505
00:35:13,149 --> 00:35:15,570
So the way the hidden stories table works

506
00:35:18,949 --> 00:35:24,340
is it is a very small join table from user ID. In this case, Gustav

507
00:35:24,500 --> 00:35:26,090
who is here sometimes I think

508
00:35:26,840 --> 00:35:27,699
to

509
00:35:28,860 --> 00:35:30,189
story ID

510
00:35:31,709 --> 00:35:35,949
and so in the extra step of looking up comments,

511
00:35:37,790 --> 00:35:40,649
it doesn't respect the story merging and it,

512
00:35:42,189 --> 00:35:43,449
yeah, it really should.

513
00:35:53,500 --> 00:35:57,239
So maybe last stream or the one before

514
00:35:59,860 --> 00:36:00,679
where to go.

515
00:36:07,110 --> 00:36:08,770
I'd have to look back at the scratches.

516
00:36:09,439 --> 00:36:12,300
We talked about some options for

517
00:36:15,570 --> 00:36:17,469
how to factor this and

518
00:36:17,679 --> 00:36:20,429
how I was kind of blocked on what to call

519
00:36:21,760 --> 00:36:23,610
the two entities resulting.

520
00:36:24,550 --> 00:36:26,709
And after sleeping on it for a few days,

521
00:36:26,719 --> 00:36:31,070
I really come along to doing the opposite of what I wrote in this issue

522
00:36:31,620 --> 00:36:32,489
and having

523
00:36:33,179 --> 00:36:37,389
a headline which is the item that can appear on the front page. Uh that,

524
00:36:37,560 --> 00:36:38,399
that seems nice.

525
00:36:39,620 --> 00:36:42,280
And then a story is the individual

526
00:36:43,580 --> 00:36:44,610
link

527
00:36:44,979 --> 00:36:46,199
or text

528
00:36:47,739 --> 00:36:49,820
and or text if we want to be pedantic

529
00:36:53,449 --> 00:36:55,129
and then features like

530
00:36:55,419 --> 00:36:57,429
hidden stories becomes

531
00:36:57,750 --> 00:36:59,149
hidden headlines

532
00:36:59,840 --> 00:37:01,620
and they are forced to say,

533
00:37:02,030 --> 00:37:02,750
oh yeah,

534
00:37:02,989 --> 00:37:04,469
someone has hidden this headline.

535
00:37:04,479 --> 00:37:06,729
So we are merging, you know,

536
00:37:06,739 --> 00:37:11,639
all stories listed on it and the common case is going to be that there is exactly one.

537
00:37:12,189 --> 00:37:13,820
But every time there's a merge, we're gonna

538
00:37:14,300 --> 00:37:15,379
merge the others

539
00:37:17,629 --> 00:37:19,100
or include the others.

540
00:37:19,520 --> 00:37:22,750
I hope that's clear how we factoring this would,

541
00:37:23,000 --> 00:37:25,610
would solve the bug factory because then

542
00:37:26,949 --> 00:37:28,239
every story,

543
00:37:28,250 --> 00:37:32,120
regardless of whether or not it's merged has the same database structure

544
00:37:36,919 --> 00:37:37,840
and it's not

545
00:37:38,070 --> 00:37:41,739
strictly needed for fixing some of the UIs stuff, but

546
00:37:43,780 --> 00:37:49,050
it always seems nicer to fix database issues before U I issues.

547
00:37:57,949 --> 00:37:59,120
So we've talked about

548
00:37:59,469 --> 00:38:00,469
the bug factor,

549
00:38:00,810 --> 00:38:04,370
we've talked about features, we don't really have

550
00:38:05,500 --> 00:38:08,639
the other feature we don't have that

551
00:38:09,040 --> 00:38:10,560
people kind of want

552
00:38:12,040 --> 00:38:12,780
is

553
00:38:14,699 --> 00:38:17,149
down here for. But my exposure,

554
00:38:17,350 --> 00:38:18,000
so

555
00:38:18,790 --> 00:38:19,729
especially when

556
00:38:20,419 --> 00:38:21,330
people are

557
00:38:22,429 --> 00:38:27,469
self promoting or trying to rebut something that they are really disagree with.

558
00:38:30,610 --> 00:38:34,560
They get pretty unhappy about seeing their link submitted even when they

559
00:38:34,570 --> 00:38:39,949
are very explicitly submitting it to respond to an existing story.

560
00:38:41,429 --> 00:38:46,189
And we merged to keep our discussions together to avoid having to rehash things.

561
00:38:48,070 --> 00:38:52,530
But people feel like they are missing out on exposure

562
00:38:52,780 --> 00:38:56,879
and this is kind of an uncharitable way of putting it. But my exposure,

563
00:39:00,189 --> 00:39:02,010
I don't have a better way to put it

564
00:39:02,370 --> 00:39:04,219
because people don't usually

565
00:39:04,659 --> 00:39:10,010
explicitly say that they feel entitled to one of the 25 slots on the home page,

566
00:39:10,790 --> 00:39:11,919
but that's what they want.

567
00:39:15,479 --> 00:39:16,139
And

568
00:39:16,979 --> 00:39:18,439
it's not obvious

569
00:39:18,810 --> 00:39:21,399
because the story disappears from slash newest

570
00:39:21,409 --> 00:39:23,040
when it's merged into something else.

571
00:39:23,050 --> 00:39:23,479
And that's

572
00:39:23,669 --> 00:39:25,520
one of the ways that people read the site.

573
00:39:26,439 --> 00:39:27,820
But those discussions

574
00:39:29,000 --> 00:39:35,129
do show up on slash active. So if any story in emerged story and I don't,

575
00:39:35,840 --> 00:39:37,620
are there any on the page here,

576
00:39:40,250 --> 00:39:42,350
Firefox, is that why is there

577
00:39:42,469 --> 00:39:42,479
a,

578
00:39:44,280 --> 00:39:46,580
this is one of those stories that sounds like it's gonna be about

579
00:39:46,929 --> 00:39:50,020
using software instead of actually making software,

580
00:39:50,949 --> 00:39:52,010
which is not

581
00:39:52,699 --> 00:39:55,699
a super strict distinction on the site for topicality.

582
00:39:55,709 --> 00:39:57,189
But I think about it a little bit,

583
00:40:02,229 --> 00:40:05,850
Firefox is also a developer tool. So yeah.

584
00:40:06,800 --> 00:40:08,739
Oh, here we go. Here's a merged story.

585
00:40:09,320 --> 00:40:14,929
So it's not obvious from this list, but this one has had another link merged into it

586
00:40:15,550 --> 00:40:20,010
and it's ordering on slash active is the latest comment

587
00:40:20,340 --> 00:40:22,889
in any of its merged stories.

588
00:40:23,219 --> 00:40:24,770
So the exposure is there

589
00:40:25,030 --> 00:40:25,570
and

590
00:40:25,689 --> 00:40:28,370
this is why I put slash active

591
00:40:29,100 --> 00:40:31,149
like literally next to

592
00:40:31,570 --> 00:40:33,879
the logo. The top thing in the upper left,

593
00:40:34,340 --> 00:40:35,659
this was only about

594
00:40:35,919 --> 00:40:41,629
2.5 years ago and so on a regular basis, long time users still

595
00:40:41,780 --> 00:40:43,959
notice slash active for the first time.

596
00:40:46,580 --> 00:40:48,270
Yeah, I'll throw this one in as long as I'm

597
00:40:49,199 --> 00:40:50,750
sharing an example,

598
00:40:51,100 --> 00:40:52,229
Mert's story

599
00:40:54,969 --> 00:40:56,300
and then in the uh

600
00:40:56,540 --> 00:40:58,590
where are we in the notes here?

601
00:41:01,659 --> 00:41:02,969
I will throw in that

602
00:41:03,520 --> 00:41:05,189
we have a couple of examples

603
00:41:11,439 --> 00:41:16,699
and no discussion of merged stories would be complete. Speaking of examples

604
00:41:16,860 --> 00:41:20,879
without the most merged story in Lobster's history.

605
00:41:21,870 --> 00:41:24,800
Does anybody know what it is offhand? This has come up on the site?

606
00:41:25,679 --> 00:41:26,379
Um

607
00:41:27,100 --> 00:41:31,550
I know it's come up in the chat room maybe two or three times over the years.

608
00:41:37,149 --> 00:41:37,989
The

609
00:41:40,540 --> 00:41:45,469
story and Lobster's history that includes the most links merged into it

610
00:41:48,929 --> 00:41:51,639
is Microsoft acquires github.

611
00:41:54,060 --> 00:41:55,800
I think that's the title

612
00:41:56,729 --> 00:41:58,030
that ended up getting used.

613
00:42:04,689 --> 00:42:05,469
Yeah, here we go,

614
00:42:06,209 --> 00:42:08,929
Microsoft to acquire github for 7.5 billion.

615
00:42:09,439 --> 00:42:10,449
So this one

616
00:42:10,659 --> 00:42:11,429
has

617
00:42:12,649 --> 00:42:21,219
123456789, 1011, 1213 linked into it. Yep, that is the most

618
00:42:24,060 --> 00:42:27,560
and I included because I think it's always useful to have

619
00:42:27,949 --> 00:42:28,840
these kind of

620
00:42:29,120 --> 00:42:32,800
outliers to understand. Well, what's the most extreme version of this?

621
00:42:35,860 --> 00:42:36,949
And I think it is

622
00:42:37,239 --> 00:42:40,199
to the site's benefit that all of these got merged together.

623
00:42:40,350 --> 00:42:43,939
Oh, there's actually like 1/14 link that the original submitter

624
00:42:44,350 --> 00:42:45,939
put into the story text.

625
00:42:47,719 --> 00:42:49,250
Yeah. So

626
00:42:49,790 --> 00:42:54,449
one of the places that merge stories are especially useful is hot take responses.

627
00:42:55,239 --> 00:42:59,489
Like a bunch of these are like this one. Floss rambling on Microsoft buy

628
00:43:00,449 --> 00:43:02,300
github has sold us out like

629
00:43:03,459 --> 00:43:05,199
these are people who have

630
00:43:07,080 --> 00:43:10,969
moralizing quick responses rather than very deep.

631
00:43:12,199 --> 00:43:14,179
What does this mean kind of reflection?

632
00:43:14,189 --> 00:43:17,830
Because if we went and looked at these dates, so

633
00:43:18,260 --> 00:43:20,689
649 15

634
00:43:21,159 --> 00:43:21,979
and then

635
00:43:22,209 --> 00:43:24,699
the first one that kind of sounds like

636
00:43:25,739 --> 00:43:27,489
response is

637
00:43:27,860 --> 00:43:30,780
64, 1255.

638
00:43:31,110 --> 00:43:33,830
So like in 3.5 hours, did this user

639
00:43:34,270 --> 00:43:36,520
think extremely deeply on it

640
00:43:36,739 --> 00:43:37,750
and come up with

641
00:43:37,989 --> 00:43:41,120
not user author, think deeply on it and come up with something

642
00:43:41,439 --> 00:43:42,830
not, not really

643
00:43:43,149 --> 00:43:43,399
you

644
00:43:44,270 --> 00:43:46,850
you're not gonna come up with something deep in three hours,

645
00:43:47,300 --> 00:43:47,760
but

646
00:43:49,659 --> 00:43:51,149
a lot of this stuff just kinda

647
00:43:51,280 --> 00:43:53,360
poured in in the first couple of hours.

648
00:44:00,760 --> 00:44:04,300
This one is also a pretty good example because some of these

649
00:44:04,959 --> 00:44:07,860
I didn't see instantly for the merging.

650
00:44:12,489 --> 00:44:13,010
Yeah.

651
00:44:14,110 --> 00:44:16,310
And so they had pretty good threads on them.

652
00:44:18,969 --> 00:44:22,340
Oh It's funny, I I just randomly scrolled in here and

653
00:44:22,469 --> 00:44:24,979
landed on people talking about story merging.

654
00:44:27,479 --> 00:44:28,780
And so then it became

655
00:44:31,300 --> 00:44:33,239
some amount of confusing rehashes.

656
00:44:33,250 --> 00:44:35,840
People are like, wait, which story are you responding to?

657
00:44:36,060 --> 00:44:37,379
Cause again, people just

658
00:44:37,760 --> 00:44:39,560
don't see the part on the right.

659
00:44:48,689 --> 00:44:51,270
Yeah. One of the benefits of merged stories

660
00:44:52,050 --> 00:44:53,620
is and this one

661
00:44:57,179 --> 00:44:58,399
Microsoft to acquire github

662
00:44:58,639 --> 00:45:01,080
that is straight up business news, right?

663
00:45:01,540 --> 00:45:02,530
Everybody knows it.

664
00:45:03,610 --> 00:45:07,850
And I would remove, I have removed many acquisition stories.

665
00:45:08,120 --> 00:45:09,550
I left this one up because

666
00:45:10,209 --> 00:45:12,149
just get how this ubiquitous

667
00:45:12,570 --> 00:45:15,449
we obviously need to talk about it by the fact that it was submitted

668
00:45:15,600 --> 00:45:17,469
14 different links.

669
00:45:18,669 --> 00:45:21,760
I think it was worth bending the rules on topicality. A little there.

670
00:45:23,669 --> 00:45:25,370
And Fritchie, what you're saying

671
00:45:25,659 --> 00:45:29,169
really gets to one of the benefits of story emerging is

672
00:45:30,159 --> 00:45:31,800
if you don't want to get into it,

673
00:45:32,169 --> 00:45:34,459
you can ignore that story.

674
00:45:34,639 --> 00:45:38,459
You can click hide on that story. Well, not that it works perfectly,

675
00:45:38,729 --> 00:45:39,860
but it mostly works

676
00:45:42,379 --> 00:45:43,919
and you can move on with your life.

677
00:45:46,239 --> 00:45:48,199
A lot of the times there's lots of stuff where you're like,

678
00:45:48,209 --> 00:45:50,530
you know what I'm not required to have an opinion on this.

679
00:45:50,800 --> 00:45:52,939
How's that uh that Seneca quote? Go

680
00:46:07,790 --> 00:46:08,830
oh yeah, there it is.

681
00:46:11,969 --> 00:46:14,050
Oh, not Seneca Aurelius,

682
00:46:14,550 --> 00:46:15,790
I guess I got close enough.

683
00:46:16,479 --> 00:46:19,580
We have the power to hold no opinion about a thing and to not let it

684
00:46:19,590 --> 00:46:23,100
upset our state of mind for things have no natural power to shape our judgment.

685
00:46:24,199 --> 00:46:24,989
So uh

686
00:46:25,330 --> 00:46:30,219
meditations is a series of notes that Aurelius wrote to himself.

687
00:46:30,469 --> 00:46:31,020
So

688
00:46:31,709 --> 00:46:36,330
you can read this as someone saying like, dude, you don't have to carry about every

689
00:46:36,659 --> 00:46:38,610
bit of news that passes by.

690
00:46:38,780 --> 00:46:41,149
You don't have to have a hot take.

691
00:46:41,550 --> 00:46:43,479
You know, that would be the modern translation.

692
00:46:43,820 --> 00:46:45,409
You can just let events go by.

693
00:46:47,879 --> 00:46:50,350
And if you don't have an opinion on this kind of thing,

694
00:46:51,010 --> 00:46:53,649
you can click hide on the story and move on

695
00:46:53,840 --> 00:46:55,149
as opposed to

696
00:46:55,689 --> 00:46:57,090
if we didn't have story merging,

697
00:46:57,100 --> 00:47:02,110
it would have been basically the whole front page for two or three days.

698
00:47:02,129 --> 00:47:04,189
Uh call it half of the home page. But

699
00:47:06,080 --> 00:47:07,219
story emerging,

700
00:47:07,229 --> 00:47:10,449
one of the things it does just by existing is

701
00:47:10,459 --> 00:47:13,320
it is it encourages people to post in comments.

702
00:47:13,330 --> 00:47:16,260
Oh, there's a topic. Yeah, put that in the notes.

703
00:47:22,300 --> 00:47:23,060
So I just

704
00:47:23,639 --> 00:47:25,760
shoved that in the scratch scratch file,

705
00:47:25,770 --> 00:47:28,129
but it encourages people to leave comments

706
00:47:28,139 --> 00:47:30,919
with links instead of starting more stories.

707
00:47:31,810 --> 00:47:32,570
So

708
00:47:32,870 --> 00:47:36,030
I'm not gonna go through this one. But if we didn't

709
00:47:37,070 --> 00:47:40,209
have story merging, and this was the first time we've had story merging,

710
00:47:40,219 --> 00:47:41,570
we probably would have seen

711
00:47:42,479 --> 00:47:44,729
at least five or 10 more links

712
00:47:45,280 --> 00:47:48,500
as people were responding to stuff and then linking

713
00:47:48,510 --> 00:47:50,919
in comments instead of submitting top level stories.

714
00:47:52,500 --> 00:47:53,679
As I recall

715
00:47:54,929 --> 00:47:59,870
the next two or three days, the hacker news home page was just all Microsoft buying

716
00:48:00,129 --> 00:48:00,360
github

717
00:48:02,090 --> 00:48:03,969
and I think our programming was similar.

718
00:48:06,830 --> 00:48:08,770
So that's one of the benefits of story merging.

719
00:48:10,530 --> 00:48:12,600
Speaking of the benefits of story emerging.

720
00:48:20,290 --> 00:48:23,830
So five years ago, this person said

721
00:48:25,219 --> 00:48:27,159
they quoted the about page and said

722
00:48:27,649 --> 00:48:30,229
uh a lot of what we've talked about where

723
00:48:33,229 --> 00:48:35,080
there are downsides to story merging,

724
00:48:35,090 --> 00:48:37,550
where it feels like they vanish from the home page.

725
00:48:38,820 --> 00:48:40,949
Oftentimes in the middle of active discussion,

726
00:48:40,959 --> 00:48:44,899
this might even be where I picked up the word active because at the time of this post,

727
00:48:44,909 --> 00:48:46,969
we did not have active up in the

728
00:48:47,889 --> 00:48:48,709
top level

729
00:48:50,899 --> 00:48:55,959
merging, disrupts the comment threading where it's really unclear by the U I

730
00:48:57,739 --> 00:49:00,639
and then this one relevant and interesting news effectively

731
00:49:00,649 --> 00:49:02,310
get hidden from a large part of the readership

732
00:49:03,360 --> 00:49:03,899
that is

733
00:49:04,389 --> 00:49:09,570
kind of the first post. Again, I think maybe the difference is, or first point again,

734
00:49:09,679 --> 00:49:11,300
I think maybe the difference is

735
00:49:13,919 --> 00:49:14,530
no,

736
00:49:15,409 --> 00:49:17,510
I don't know another way to put that besides

737
00:49:18,010 --> 00:49:19,149
it's about exposure.

738
00:49:27,429 --> 00:49:32,169
I guess the uh and their example here is breaking news that had developments

739
00:49:32,959 --> 00:49:34,860
and breaking news is

740
00:49:35,709 --> 00:49:38,189
especially prone to

741
00:49:38,610 --> 00:49:43,010
having pretty rough discussions as people both rehash what came before the

742
00:49:43,179 --> 00:49:44,010
the news

743
00:49:44,659 --> 00:49:46,520
and then react to the title.

744
00:49:47,780 --> 00:49:51,860
And when we have stories where people react to the title, which mostly is paywalls,

745
00:49:51,870 --> 00:49:54,590
but then also happens a lot with news, we have

746
00:49:57,060 --> 00:50:00,159
more likely incendiary discussions and

747
00:50:02,110 --> 00:50:04,760
don't really get anywhere interesting,

748
00:50:07,070 --> 00:50:09,449
which is why paywall stuff gets removed.

749
00:50:22,360 --> 00:50:24,300
Yeah, save stories is the bug.

750
00:50:29,669 --> 00:50:33,090
So I left a there was a, a solid discussion about this one

751
00:50:35,479 --> 00:50:39,979
and I improved the description of merging on the about page based on it,

752
00:50:41,209 --> 00:50:44,229
but in the years since cause it has been five years.

753
00:50:45,659 --> 00:50:47,120
I've come to think that

754
00:50:47,899 --> 00:50:49,909
how many mergers have there been like total?

755
00:50:53,439 --> 00:50:56,260
Let's check. Oh A Rhi was wondering if I'd see you.

756
00:50:56,649 --> 00:50:58,169
We had a weird event

757
00:50:59,590 --> 00:51:01,370
maybe two days ago.

758
00:51:02,840 --> 00:51:04,399
Yeah, it must have been Sunday

759
00:51:05,159 --> 00:51:05,820
cause I was

760
00:51:06,919 --> 00:51:08,330
Yeah, well, Sunday, um

761
00:51:10,649 --> 00:51:14,429
someone submitted a story about Mozilla rebranding

762
00:51:14,800 --> 00:51:17,189
and they had a user name similar to yours.

763
00:51:17,330 --> 00:51:17,679
And

764
00:51:18,469 --> 00:51:19,159
oddly enough,

765
00:51:19,169 --> 00:51:21,790
they submitted a story and then like an

766
00:51:21,800 --> 00:51:24,090
hour later came back and deleted their account

767
00:51:24,969 --> 00:51:25,600
and it was a,

768
00:51:26,370 --> 00:51:28,169
it was all done by the time I saw it,

769
00:51:28,179 --> 00:51:31,510
but they had just gotten a couple of anodyne comments about

770
00:51:35,310 --> 00:51:36,409
branding and then

771
00:51:37,129 --> 00:51:39,750
I was really puzzled by it. I was hoping it wasn't you,

772
00:51:41,459 --> 00:51:43,120
but they did have a user name similar.

773
00:51:48,250 --> 00:51:48,899
OK.

774
00:51:50,510 --> 00:51:51,830
Well, glad you're still with us.

775
00:52:03,379 --> 00:52:05,840
So when you say how many mergers have there been?

776
00:52:12,020 --> 00:52:15,320
I wanna make sure I'm making this join in the right direction.

777
00:52:15,330 --> 00:52:17,159
Where's that other example?

778
00:52:17,850 --> 00:52:18,429
Um

779
00:52:19,429 --> 00:52:20,719
That one was

780
00:52:21,989 --> 00:52:23,330
also too. So,

781
00:52:28,080 --> 00:52:33,580
so a Rh for your query, would you count this as one or would you count this as 13?

782
00:52:35,110 --> 00:52:35,810
Well, I mean,

783
00:52:37,020 --> 00:52:41,320
just the one target rather than the 12 that were merged in?

784
00:52:43,610 --> 00:52:44,719
OK, 13.

785
00:52:45,149 --> 00:52:47,330
So do you wanna include

786
00:52:48,600 --> 00:52:51,290
the top level one or just the ones that emerged?

787
00:52:52,149 --> 00:52:53,729
Number of merge icons? Sure.

788
00:53:06,110 --> 00:53:07,219
What is it? Banana

789
00:53:07,340 --> 00:53:08,739
and come here?

790
00:53:09,100 --> 00:53:10,530
Oh, red line.

791
00:53:19,219 --> 00:53:21,719
Uh not deleted that, I guess it is deleted

792
00:53:21,850 --> 00:53:23,919
and it just didn't wanna autocomplete for me.

793
00:53:26,389 --> 00:53:26,969
That's

794
00:53:28,290 --> 00:53:29,530
or not is known.

795
00:53:42,689 --> 00:53:45,550
OK. So we've had 754

796
00:53:47,120 --> 00:53:48,389
in the life of the sight

797
00:53:57,500 --> 00:53:59,320
and then just for a ballpark,

798
00:54:02,010 --> 00:54:06,149
this is just top level, there's 100 and 6000, 237

799
00:54:08,840 --> 00:54:12,270
or maybe a better overall denominator would be

800
00:54:14,010 --> 00:54:14,510
100

801
00:54:15,040 --> 00:54:17,070
yeah, rounded to 100 and 7000.

802
00:54:19,620 --> 00:54:20,479
So that's what,

803
00:54:36,120 --> 00:54:37,550
yeah, 0.7%

804
00:54:40,500 --> 00:54:44,189
I mean, it's almost your user name, right? 0.69 instead of 68.

805
00:54:57,560 --> 00:54:59,639
And we get roughly

806
00:55:00,560 --> 00:55:01,340
lately,

807
00:55:07,959 --> 00:55:09,780
it feels like we get about

808
00:55:10,989 --> 00:55:12,959
20 or so

809
00:55:13,209 --> 00:55:16,409
20 to 30 links a day. I would have to check.

810
00:55:16,959 --> 00:55:19,370
And so that's a, a story gets merged

811
00:55:19,649 --> 00:55:21,399
every couple of days,

812
00:55:21,739 --> 00:55:22,610
you know, call it

813
00:55:22,889 --> 00:55:23,929
two times a week.

814
00:55:27,010 --> 00:55:30,909
I can query out the exact numbers, but that's just kind of my ballpark.

815
00:55:45,699 --> 00:55:47,399
So emerging is

816
00:55:52,909 --> 00:55:54,580
it is and isn't a mess.

817
00:55:57,000 --> 00:55:57,469
It

818
00:55:57,830 --> 00:56:00,379
isn't a mess in the sense of

819
00:56:00,600 --> 00:56:04,929
on any given story, you could update that merged story ID column

820
00:56:06,280 --> 00:56:07,000
right

821
00:56:08,050 --> 00:56:09,270
out to another.

822
00:56:09,600 --> 00:56:12,189
You could just update that to know

823
00:56:12,550 --> 00:56:16,510
and those comments, like you see this very first top comment,

824
00:56:17,719 --> 00:56:20,500
it has the story ID for

825
00:56:21,709 --> 00:56:23,040
the Bloomberg one

826
00:56:24,709 --> 00:56:26,189
which was reporting.

827
00:56:28,510 --> 00:56:32,030
And so if on this Bloomberg story,

828
00:56:32,620 --> 00:56:34,290
I clicked on merge

829
00:56:34,909 --> 00:56:37,560
this comment tree would move over,

830
00:56:39,030 --> 00:56:40,439
but at the same time,

831
00:56:41,550 --> 00:56:44,030
and I'm not logged in. So you don't see the comment box.

832
00:56:44,189 --> 00:56:48,550
But if I were logged in and I was mostly wanting to respond to the

833
00:56:48,560 --> 00:56:52,929
Bloomberg story or one of the comments and I left a new top level comment,

834
00:56:53,649 --> 00:56:55,580
it would always go to this

835
00:56:56,280 --> 00:56:58,659
with this story ID rather than

836
00:57:00,219 --> 00:57:05,280
say Bloomberg or as somebody else pointed out, Drew de Vault's response.

837
00:57:08,449 --> 00:57:09,189
And

838
00:57:10,050 --> 00:57:11,629
so in that sense,

839
00:57:13,389 --> 00:57:15,449
it would kind of be a mess.

840
00:57:16,689 --> 00:57:19,409
There is no site feature for

841
00:57:19,570 --> 00:57:23,649
moving threads from one story to another

842
00:57:24,229 --> 00:57:26,840
and I could do it in the database. But it would,

843
00:57:27,560 --> 00:57:29,590
boy, that would be just dangerous

844
00:57:30,290 --> 00:57:33,570
because there's no, no guardrails if I go to the database

845
00:57:33,729 --> 00:57:36,080
and then I have to manually write moderation messages.

846
00:57:40,050 --> 00:57:42,199
So that 26 up votes

847
00:57:43,899 --> 00:57:44,750
is

848
00:57:48,219 --> 00:57:49,540
so let's see.

849
00:57:53,770 --> 00:57:55,669
Yeah, it got 31.

850
00:57:56,199 --> 00:57:56,830
So it's

851
00:57:57,129 --> 00:58:02,870
air, it's net 26. So it got 31 up votes and then four flags.

852
00:58:04,860 --> 00:58:05,520
But

853
00:58:06,469 --> 00:58:09,169
you're losing one frame one second.

854
00:58:10,979 --> 00:58:12,709
I am not getting any kind of

855
00:58:13,649 --> 00:58:14,989
error out of

856
00:58:15,620 --> 00:58:17,189
my streaming setup.

857
00:58:18,520 --> 00:58:21,340
BS thinks it hasn't dropped any frames

858
00:58:23,649 --> 00:58:25,800
and the stream health graph is still green.

859
00:58:32,939 --> 00:58:35,399
No. Now the stream, now that I reload

860
00:58:36,100 --> 00:58:36,840
the dashboard

861
00:58:38,409 --> 00:58:41,469
Twitch says the stream is unstable. Thanks. Twitch.

862
00:58:49,300 --> 00:58:49,370
OK.

863
00:58:53,459 --> 00:58:54,040
Are you right?

864
00:58:54,810 --> 00:58:57,669
I shouldn't put this in chat. I should just put it on the screen. Right.

865
00:59:18,250 --> 00:59:18,270
The

866
00:59:18,379 --> 00:59:18,689
only

867
00:59:26,080 --> 00:59:27,949
a rich, what are you asking about? F

868
00:59:31,080 --> 00:59:32,409
I don't know if I'm audible.

869
00:59:47,100 --> 00:59:49,020
Oh F in the chat

870
00:59:49,379 --> 00:59:52,580
f to pay respects. All right. Just took me a second to get there.

871
00:59:57,629 --> 00:59:58,719
Yeah, it's just

872
00:59:59,239 --> 01:00:01,489
gone to hell for no discernible reason.

873
01:00:01,939 --> 01:00:03,239
It didn't even rain today.

874
01:00:06,030 --> 01:00:09,469
Ah, hey, again, GTFRVZ. Yeah, that's,

875
01:00:09,590 --> 01:00:10,449
that's the meme.

876
01:00:10,739 --> 01:00:11,219
I didn't

877
01:00:11,689 --> 01:00:17,250
how funny to see a, a meme page on Wikipedia instead of on know your meme.

878
01:00:37,709 --> 01:00:37,830
Yeah.

879
01:00:37,840 --> 01:00:39,959
The situation is really frustrating and I don't know

880
01:00:39,969 --> 01:00:43,000
if it is on Twitch's end or my end.

881
01:00:43,219 --> 01:00:44,679
Probably mine. Right.

882
01:00:44,810 --> 01:00:45,280
But

883
01:00:47,879 --> 01:00:49,850
s doesn't show any issue.

884
01:01:00,010 --> 01:01:00,669
Hm.

885
01:01:10,479 --> 01:01:11,290
Are the

886
01:01:13,350 --> 01:01:17,770
Am I audible cleanly or am I? Is my voice also dropping out?

887
01:01:18,280 --> 01:01:20,250
Is it just that the video is behind?

888
01:01:20,260 --> 01:01:22,399
Because if it's just that the video is behind,

889
01:01:22,409 --> 01:01:26,090
I can be a little slower jumping around between things and we can keep rolling.

890
01:01:26,820 --> 01:01:28,000
But if I'm not audible,

891
01:01:28,939 --> 01:01:33,159
I should just stop whether that's a pause or a give up for the day.

892
01:01:36,209 --> 01:01:37,800
Ok. Pull up the clock. Yeah.

893
01:01:44,000 --> 01:01:46,379
So let's bring that in.

894
01:01:51,030 --> 01:01:51,060
Mhm.

895
01:02:03,850 --> 01:02:06,449
Seems to be fine now. Ok, good.

896
01:02:07,449 --> 01:02:08,209
Yeah, the

897
01:02:09,010 --> 01:02:12,500
so Twitch has a little stream health graph that

898
01:02:13,189 --> 01:02:17,050
is not always responsive after refresh. You think you're good. Ok,

899
01:02:18,120 --> 01:02:18,780
so

900
01:02:20,159 --> 01:02:23,100
please refresh if things are awful and let's keep rolling.

901
01:02:23,510 --> 01:02:24,199
Shameless.

902
01:02:24,629 --> 01:02:25,699
Nice to see you again.

903
01:02:31,189 --> 01:02:31,860
Alrighty,

904
01:02:35,550 --> 01:02:37,969
only 30 seconds late and the voice is ok,

905
01:02:39,399 --> 01:02:42,659
30 seconds is a lot more delay. Usually

906
01:02:42,979 --> 01:02:43,620
the

907
01:02:44,590 --> 01:02:49,250
delay tends to be in the 5 to 8 2nd range.

908
01:02:49,600 --> 01:02:52,959
I did notice that folks are responding a little slower in the chat. But

909
01:02:53,949 --> 01:02:54,330
yeah,

910
01:02:55,350 --> 01:02:56,530
so anyways

911
01:02:56,649 --> 01:02:58,090
having broken out of that,

912
01:02:58,290 --> 01:03:03,399
I will do a, you know, a station bumper that this is the lobster's office hours.

913
01:03:03,840 --> 01:03:06,209
And if you want to talk about the site of the community,

914
01:03:06,510 --> 01:03:08,969
you can pop up anytime with questions

915
01:03:09,379 --> 01:03:11,169
and we will talk about

916
01:03:11,280 --> 01:03:11,300
it.

917
01:03:12,070 --> 01:03:14,409
We are working on otherwise

918
01:03:15,830 --> 01:03:20,570
a project to help the site understand itself better, which is to say

919
01:03:21,560 --> 01:03:26,219
to talk about what story emerging is to how it works, how it's implemented,

920
01:03:26,229 --> 01:03:27,469
how it can be buggy.

921
01:03:30,840 --> 01:03:31,330
Hm.

922
01:03:32,729 --> 01:03:33,000
F for,

923
01:03:33,850 --> 01:03:38,429
are you saying 2.5 minutes or are you saying like 2.3 seconds?

924
01:03:41,729 --> 01:03:46,110
Cause 2.5 minutes is a hell of a lot. Nobody's ever said that much delay before.

925
01:03:53,330 --> 01:03:53,679
Hm.

926
01:03:54,479 --> 01:03:56,000
2.3 seconds. Ok.

927
01:03:56,810 --> 01:03:57,310
Just,

928
01:03:59,939 --> 01:04:00,229
you know,

929
01:04:00,239 --> 01:04:02,550
the number was either big enough that it was

930
01:04:02,560 --> 01:04:04,909
surprising or small enough that it was surprising.

931
01:04:10,370 --> 01:04:11,060
So,

932
01:04:11,959 --> 01:04:13,360
in this meta thread

933
01:04:16,340 --> 01:04:17,010
I had

934
01:04:17,320 --> 01:04:19,320
just kind of drifted into,

935
01:04:20,250 --> 01:04:22,669
hey, here's the virtues of story merging

936
01:04:22,830 --> 01:04:24,409
and this was longer than

937
01:04:26,000 --> 01:04:27,540
the value of

938
01:04:32,659 --> 01:04:33,719
longer than the,

939
01:04:33,729 --> 01:04:38,080
the text I added to the about page which we should click over and look at that.

940
01:04:51,080 --> 01:04:52,679
So I believe,

941
01:04:53,639 --> 01:04:57,500
oh man, so the last couple of streams I have talked about

942
01:04:58,090 --> 01:05:01,129
writing stuff and then run to get blame and then

943
01:05:01,250 --> 01:05:02,469
no, I didn't write

944
01:05:02,580 --> 01:05:04,379
it or at most I tweaked it a little.

945
01:05:04,389 --> 01:05:06,560
So I'm gonna avoid putting my foot in my

946
01:05:06,570 --> 01:05:09,580
mouth again about the history of this bullet point.

947
01:05:16,080 --> 01:05:17,010
I just

948
01:05:17,669 --> 01:05:17,689
uh

949
01:05:17,790 --> 01:05:21,169
actually when I just roll right into it, I wanna say

950
01:05:21,699 --> 01:05:26,449
we had like this short sentence and I wrote the later stuff.

951
01:05:30,020 --> 01:05:32,600
Oh And I linked a couple of example stories like

952
01:05:33,030 --> 01:05:34,469
I'm pretty sure this was me. Yeah.

953
01:05:34,479 --> 01:05:37,360
Well, there's the large example that must have been me because

954
01:05:37,649 --> 01:05:40,270
it came well, after J CS left

955
01:05:40,800 --> 01:05:42,469
or not left, step down.

956
01:05:44,879 --> 01:05:45,520
So

957
01:05:52,689 --> 01:05:54,270
I'm basically saying,

958
01:05:55,300 --> 01:05:56,439
where is this link to?

959
01:05:57,629 --> 01:05:59,449
Uh So this links to

960
01:05:59,879 --> 01:06:03,209
J CS S original description of story merging.

961
01:06:06,199 --> 01:06:08,100
And I would like to

962
01:06:08,669 --> 01:06:10,370
replace this link

963
01:06:12,389 --> 01:06:13,139
with a

964
01:06:13,360 --> 01:06:15,580
full page description.

965
01:06:16,040 --> 01:06:22,169
So it would live at something like lobsters slash story merging or lobsters about

966
01:06:22,340 --> 01:06:23,469
slash merging

967
01:06:24,620 --> 01:06:25,959
rather than

968
01:06:26,110 --> 01:06:28,939
there's a little blurb here that links off to

969
01:06:29,800 --> 01:06:31,699
this kind of out of date thing

970
01:06:33,639 --> 01:06:37,139
I say kind of cause like the core of this is the same

971
01:06:38,989 --> 01:06:40,840
but this also points to

972
01:06:44,270 --> 01:06:45,370
some of the

973
01:06:46,439 --> 01:06:47,260
issues

974
01:06:49,139 --> 01:06:52,280
or it doesn't cover some of the issues is maybe a better way to say it.

975
01:06:53,100 --> 01:06:53,550
So,

976
01:07:17,830 --> 01:07:21,570
so given that nobody has piped up with uh more site questions.

977
01:07:21,580 --> 01:07:23,169
What I was basically gonna do

978
01:07:23,479 --> 01:07:24,370
is

979
01:07:24,500 --> 01:07:27,129
take this figure out where to stick a page

980
01:07:27,989 --> 01:07:28,770
and

981
01:07:31,290 --> 01:07:34,209
look at categorizing the existing

982
01:07:34,959 --> 01:07:36,580
story merges

983
01:07:38,330 --> 01:07:39,030
which

984
01:07:39,649 --> 01:07:41,750
I did years ago for

985
01:07:43,520 --> 01:07:46,189
ah so many tabs. I can't keep track of where stuff was,

986
01:07:47,969 --> 01:07:48,770
which I did

987
01:07:50,659 --> 01:07:51,800
roughly

988
01:07:52,020 --> 01:07:57,260
for this where I made a tab separated value of all the merge stories.

989
01:07:57,270 --> 01:07:58,719
So we could see the scope of the topic

990
01:07:59,239 --> 01:08:00,070
and I kind of

991
01:08:00,429 --> 01:08:01,350
skimmed it.

992
01:08:03,219 --> 01:08:04,800
Uh This is certainly still true.

993
01:08:04,810 --> 01:08:07,909
I really appreciate efforts to try and build a shared foundation for discussion.

994
01:08:07,969 --> 01:08:10,469
Remind of that slash about note that I run queries.

995
01:08:11,229 --> 01:08:13,540
This is the same kind of impulse that led

996
01:08:13,550 --> 01:08:16,560
me this year to start doing these office hours because

997
01:08:17,720 --> 01:08:20,879
a big chunk of what I feel is my responsibility

998
01:08:20,890 --> 01:08:24,299
as a moderator is to help the site understand itself

999
01:08:24,669 --> 01:08:25,259
and

1000
01:08:25,910 --> 01:08:27,799
sometimes that means you have to run

1001
01:08:27,810 --> 01:08:30,689
queries against the production database to understand that

1002
01:08:31,169 --> 01:08:35,049
story merging happens 0.7% of stories.

1003
01:08:39,200 --> 01:08:40,669
And if we look at

1004
01:08:40,950 --> 01:08:41,810
the

1005
01:08:42,060 --> 01:08:44,919
moderation messages for all of the merges,

1006
01:08:45,180 --> 01:08:47,220
we can get themes of.

1007
01:08:48,160 --> 01:08:51,600
So the other thing I wanted to include in a document is

1008
01:08:55,129 --> 01:08:57,339
the practices around story merging.

1009
01:08:58,259 --> 01:08:59,060
So

1010
01:08:59,819 --> 01:09:01,229
I believe with that giant

1011
01:09:01,500 --> 01:09:04,919
github thread that the Bloomberg story was released first,

1012
01:09:04,930 --> 01:09:07,799
they uh they beat the press releases into publishing by

1013
01:09:07,939 --> 01:09:09,080
a couple of hours,

1014
01:09:09,729 --> 01:09:10,620
maybe less.

1015
01:09:11,879 --> 01:09:15,600
But we merged into Microsoft's announcement

1016
01:09:15,779 --> 01:09:18,500
because it's kind of the official primary source.

1017
01:09:20,029 --> 01:09:25,209
And so most of the time we prefer to link to the primary source if it's going to

1018
01:09:28,000 --> 01:09:30,279
make enough sense to have context

1019
01:09:30,470 --> 01:09:34,049
and honestly, the only place I should stop uh

1020
01:09:34,609 --> 01:09:36,899
should stop rambling and start making notes, right?

1021
01:09:38,259 --> 01:09:38,879
So,

1022
01:09:41,669 --> 01:09:43,660
all right. So the topics here, let's,

1023
01:09:45,979 --> 01:09:47,839
there we go. So here's kind of those

1024
01:09:56,080 --> 01:09:57,379
topics emerging.

1025
01:10:05,140 --> 01:10:07,540
It's a pain in the week timeline. Um

1026
01:10:07,689 --> 01:10:08,600
Practices

1027
01:10:10,879 --> 01:10:12,060
prefer

1028
01:10:13,109 --> 01:10:14,640
primary source,

1029
01:10:16,979 --> 01:10:18,299
but for

1030
01:10:18,509 --> 01:10:20,080
technical write ups

1031
01:10:20,799 --> 01:10:22,009
to um

1032
01:10:24,089 --> 01:10:25,899
what's the term here? Um

1033
01:10:29,459 --> 01:10:30,689
So if we have,

1034
01:10:33,430 --> 01:10:37,330
if we have two stories submitted about the same time that are on the same topic,

1035
01:10:37,339 --> 01:10:39,399
and one of them is like

1036
01:10:39,930 --> 01:10:43,250
the cnn.com version and one of them is

1037
01:10:44,330 --> 01:10:46,629
Bob's deeply technical blog.

1038
01:10:46,640 --> 01:10:50,779
I would prefer to make Bob's deeply technical Ball blog the primary

1039
01:10:50,790 --> 01:10:53,839
write up because the CNN one is gonna spend a lot of time

1040
01:10:53,939 --> 01:10:56,069
it's not gonna go into his depth and it's gonna

1041
01:10:56,080 --> 01:10:59,149
spend a lot of its time on other stuff rather than

1042
01:10:59,839 --> 01:11:01,939
the real valuable part for us.

1043
01:11:03,509 --> 01:11:04,310
So, I guess just

1044
01:11:04,850 --> 01:11:05,779
two

1045
01:11:06,299 --> 01:11:08,580
general news sites I try and

1046
01:11:09,729 --> 01:11:12,279
discourage general news, but

1047
01:11:12,709 --> 01:11:13,930
that's neither here nor there.

1048
01:11:14,439 --> 01:11:16,879
The other thing I was gonna say is

1049
01:11:17,100 --> 01:11:19,189
for primary sources

1050
01:11:20,779 --> 01:11:23,660
and this comes up very rarely, maybe

1051
01:11:23,810 --> 01:11:25,279
every two years

1052
01:11:26,290 --> 01:11:30,270
in the, except in the case of legal proceedings.

1053
01:11:32,390 --> 01:11:33,439
And this one

1054
01:11:34,640 --> 01:11:38,129
has not been a universal practice but stuff that's come up in

1055
01:11:38,140 --> 01:11:41,819
the last year or two has driven home the value of it because

1056
01:11:47,109 --> 01:11:50,959
legal documents have a heck of a lot of jargon

1057
01:11:50,970 --> 01:11:53,089
and they have a heck of a lot of assumptions

1058
01:11:53,490 --> 01:11:55,270
and a naive nonla

1059
01:11:55,450 --> 01:11:56,569
reading of them

1060
01:11:58,399 --> 01:12:00,689
kind of rounds to worthless.

1061
01:12:02,209 --> 01:12:06,180
And I say that as someone who has worked closely with

1062
01:12:06,330 --> 01:12:08,589
lawyers on different products

1063
01:12:09,689 --> 01:12:12,569
and on contracts for my consulting,

1064
01:12:14,770 --> 01:12:15,629
I learned

1065
01:12:16,640 --> 01:12:19,370
uh many times that my

1066
01:12:19,750 --> 01:12:23,859
non lawyerly understandings of documents were often just

1067
01:12:23,870 --> 01:12:26,660
hilariously wrong because I was missing stuff,

1068
01:12:27,379 --> 01:12:31,569
missing assumptions that they teach in the second year of law school

1069
01:12:31,689 --> 01:12:32,520
or

1070
01:12:33,350 --> 01:12:36,290
missing that something was a particular jargon.

1071
01:12:36,299 --> 01:12:40,839
And so I would interpret a term like reasonable person to just be like, yeah, ok,

1072
01:12:40,850 --> 01:12:42,020
I know what it means to be reasonable.

1073
01:12:42,029 --> 01:12:43,790
It's somebody who's not flying off the handle.

1074
01:12:44,140 --> 01:12:45,799
No, actually, that's a term

1075
01:12:46,089 --> 01:12:50,120
that's a legal standard with like 19 big pieces of case

1076
01:12:50,129 --> 01:12:54,720
law and is a major open doctrine in us legal proceedings.

1077
01:12:58,109 --> 01:12:59,729
So one example of that,

1078
01:13:00,819 --> 01:13:04,240
yeah, I don't think we need to dive into examples and I really don't wanna like

1079
01:13:05,350 --> 01:13:07,879
if you'll pardon the pun litigate those examples.

1080
01:13:20,979 --> 01:13:22,240
And so for

1081
01:13:23,029 --> 01:13:24,490
legal matters,

1082
01:13:25,029 --> 01:13:25,680
um

1083
01:13:27,109 --> 01:13:30,890
we tend to have really pretty good discussions actually when

1084
01:13:31,609 --> 01:13:35,430
we have a lawyer writing for non lawyers. And that's happened with,

1085
01:13:38,720 --> 01:13:43,819
I think the Dino suing Oracle over the Javascript trademark.

1086
01:13:43,830 --> 01:13:45,899
That's just happened in the last week or two.

1087
01:13:46,009 --> 01:13:48,049
And then the other one is um

1088
01:13:48,930 --> 01:13:53,540
there's somebody who writes about software licensing and I'm blanking on his name.

1089
01:13:54,859 --> 01:13:57,229
Is there a blue in his name?

1090
01:14:04,839 --> 01:14:05,740
Bye,

1091
01:14:08,770 --> 01:14:12,149
Ke Mitchell. Yes. J Ivan. That is exactly who I'm thinking of.

1092
01:14:13,899 --> 01:14:14,740
And is that

1093
01:14:14,879 --> 01:14:14,890
a,

1094
01:14:15,299 --> 01:14:17,520
I wanna say he might even be a user on the site?

1095
01:14:18,959 --> 01:14:19,580
Yes.

1096
01:14:22,810 --> 01:14:23,589
Um

1097
01:14:30,399 --> 01:14:31,560
What's his site name?

1098
01:14:34,990 --> 01:14:37,060
Rating dot Ken mitchell.com?

1099
01:14:39,990 --> 01:14:41,529
Not Ken Ke,

1100
01:14:41,870 --> 01:14:46,160
I swear there is someone that had the word blue in the title of their name of their

1101
01:14:51,799 --> 01:14:52,970
Yeah,

1102
01:14:53,350 --> 01:14:55,600
Blue Oak. That's what I'm thinking of.

1103
01:15:02,339 --> 01:15:03,149
That's a lot of

1104
01:15:12,790 --> 01:15:13,810
this might be just

1105
01:15:14,040 --> 01:15:15,930
going back to Ke Mitchell again.

1106
01:15:18,959 --> 01:15:20,540
So this one,

1107
01:15:24,790 --> 01:15:25,419
there's

1108
01:15:25,600 --> 01:15:25,609
a,

1109
01:15:27,709 --> 01:15:30,529
oh, yep, here he is. Here's Ke Mitchell again.

1110
01:15:30,830 --> 01:15:32,319
That's exactly why I was uh

1111
01:15:33,520 --> 01:15:37,540
coming back to it. So, yeah, sorry. This one is writing dot Ke

1112
01:15:37,839 --> 01:15:38,799
michell.com.

1113
01:15:39,950 --> 01:15:41,930
So if we swap that out to say

1114
01:15:45,759 --> 01:15:47,000
these have been

1115
01:15:48,060 --> 01:15:51,500
pretty consistently some of the best writing on

1116
01:15:51,509 --> 01:15:53,779
software licensing that has appeared on the site

1117
01:15:55,049 --> 01:15:56,680
and software licensing is

1118
01:15:57,779 --> 01:16:00,220
pretty hot topic. Like, as you can see, by

1119
01:16:00,470 --> 01:16:04,040
80 47 37 32

1120
01:16:04,419 --> 01:16:08,620
you know, when our median number of comments on stories is like six or seven,

1121
01:16:11,049 --> 01:16:15,509
we tend to have fairly large discussions and even though these are licensing,

1122
01:16:19,220 --> 01:16:22,890
they don't tend to turn into flame wars. I'm not gonna say they haven't,

1123
01:16:23,720 --> 01:16:26,310
I'm not gonna say they haven't gotten contentious because people have a

1124
01:16:26,319 --> 01:16:29,979
lot of strong feelings about licensing and I don't wanna dismiss those.

1125
01:16:31,859 --> 01:16:32,509
But,

1126
01:16:35,200 --> 01:16:35,419
hm

1127
01:16:36,549 --> 01:16:39,569
Kyle Mitchell, there is part of what

1128
01:16:40,009 --> 01:16:41,160
informs

1129
01:16:41,500 --> 01:16:43,430
this opinion of mine that when we get a

1130
01:16:43,439 --> 01:16:46,609
lawyer who is explicitly writing for non lawyers,

1131
01:16:46,620 --> 01:16:49,649
we have our best chances of having a really fruitful discussion.

1132
01:16:50,240 --> 01:16:53,609
And that is always my north star for the site is,

1133
01:16:54,339 --> 01:16:55,419
are we having

1134
01:16:56,899 --> 01:17:00,069
healthy discussions where people are sharing interesting

1135
01:17:00,080 --> 01:17:02,799
things and forming opinions and feel safe asking

1136
01:17:02,810 --> 01:17:05,959
questions and building on one another's knowledge and

1137
01:17:05,970 --> 01:17:08,319
connecting with people who have shared interests.

1138
01:17:08,729 --> 01:17:09,870
When we do that,

1139
01:17:10,680 --> 01:17:11,299
it is

1140
01:17:11,689 --> 01:17:13,580
the best of an online forum.

1141
01:17:13,879 --> 01:17:16,660
It is why running Lobsters is

1142
01:17:16,939 --> 01:17:19,689
so satisfying for me. I love being able to,

1143
01:17:20,899 --> 01:17:25,879
I don't know, be the the party host who helps those discussions happen.

1144
01:17:26,720 --> 01:17:31,180
So that's why I say the primary source except for law because

1145
01:17:32,089 --> 01:17:33,069
as a bunch of,

1146
01:17:33,779 --> 01:17:36,620
you know, programming teaches you to be

1147
01:17:36,850 --> 01:17:39,549
nitpicky and teaches you to

1148
01:17:40,359 --> 01:17:42,819
rely on the written word

1149
01:17:43,549 --> 01:17:44,439
and you kind of

1150
01:17:44,689 --> 01:17:47,930
we drive into the ditch and I, I say this knowing I,

1151
01:17:47,939 --> 01:17:53,450
I drove into the ditch many times trying to discuss legal stuff when

1152
01:17:53,819 --> 01:17:55,930
I just don't have

1153
01:17:56,919 --> 01:17:57,939
the training

1154
01:17:58,310 --> 01:18:00,759
and experience to be able to talk about

1155
01:18:00,979 --> 01:18:01,000
it

1156
01:18:02,040 --> 01:18:05,430
with the confidence that is very tempting just from a

1157
01:18:05,990 --> 01:18:08,040
career spent in programming

1158
01:18:08,759 --> 01:18:11,359
because they're, ah, they're so similar. It's,

1159
01:18:11,720 --> 01:18:12,279
you know,

1160
01:18:13,240 --> 01:18:15,299
it's writing, made real

1161
01:18:15,450 --> 01:18:19,189
writing that changes the world. Ah, that's the whole thing I do as a programmer.

1162
01:18:19,200 --> 01:18:19,540
Right.

1163
01:18:23,770 --> 01:18:25,979
So then this other kind of guideline of

1164
01:18:25,990 --> 01:18:28,259
preferring technical write ups to general news sites,

1165
01:18:28,270 --> 01:18:29,379
that one's pretty obvious.

1166
01:18:44,850 --> 01:18:48,240
The mit license line by line. Which one is this?

1167
01:18:57,919 --> 01:19:00,270
Oh, yeah, this is a great post.

1168
01:19:08,149 --> 01:19:09,169
I have been

1169
01:19:09,919 --> 01:19:11,450
occasionally tempted

1170
01:19:11,830 --> 01:19:12,600
to

1171
01:19:13,589 --> 01:19:15,370
actually go to law school

1172
01:19:15,660 --> 01:19:19,049
for dealing with software licensing and other IP issues.

1173
01:19:20,470 --> 01:19:22,890
Not quite so much. I've actually done it,

1174
01:19:23,129 --> 01:19:26,290
but if there were a remote law school,

1175
01:19:28,149 --> 01:19:30,700
especially one that allowed me to move at my own pace,

1176
01:19:31,509 --> 01:19:33,379
I probably would go do that.

1177
01:19:34,049 --> 01:19:37,439
I've looked a couple of times and they all are very

1178
01:19:37,450 --> 01:19:40,750
oriented around the idea that it is a three year program.

1179
01:19:41,569 --> 01:19:44,140
There are really only a few law schools that

1180
01:19:44,729 --> 01:19:45,709
are not

1181
01:19:46,029 --> 01:19:47,549
full time in person

1182
01:19:47,850 --> 01:19:49,990
or like night school in person.

1183
01:19:51,169 --> 01:19:53,169
And that's really hard to fit into

1184
01:19:54,169 --> 01:19:58,459
being well into another career and not actually wanting to change careers,

1185
01:19:58,470 --> 01:20:00,950
just wanting to have a deep understanding of the topic.

1186
01:20:01,819 --> 01:20:03,959
And the other option would be to uh

1187
01:20:06,430 --> 01:20:09,229
find the curricula for a law school and hire some

1188
01:20:09,240 --> 01:20:11,779
tutors and just do the studying and not the structure.

1189
01:20:11,790 --> 01:20:12,220
But

1190
01:20:13,890 --> 01:20:14,390
I don't know.

1191
01:20:19,020 --> 01:20:19,950
So

1192
01:20:22,029 --> 01:20:24,689
where was, let's grab this link to

1193
01:20:26,089 --> 01:20:27,259
because this is useful.

1194
01:20:35,839 --> 01:20:36,939
What is happening here?

1195
01:20:40,169 --> 01:20:41,509
Clipboard hassles.

1196
01:20:52,310 --> 01:20:54,970
So let's go look at these uh merged stories, right?

1197
01:21:03,279 --> 01:21:05,939
So we'll grab that and then we will say

1198
01:21:09,240 --> 01:21:11,339
what I really would like is,

1199
01:21:11,899 --> 01:21:12,040
yeah,

1200
01:21:12,049 --> 01:21:17,109
I better do it at the console interactively and then I'll dump it to a TSV to look at

1201
01:21:17,580 --> 01:21:21,529
like the other time that we reviewed all the moderation decisions.

1202
01:21:25,229 --> 01:21:27,799
All right. So we want to

1203
01:21:29,189 --> 01:21:30,660
starting from stories.

1204
01:21:31,970 --> 01:21:33,669
Let's select the

1205
01:21:35,970 --> 01:21:40,390
short ID, the title from stories where merged

1206
01:21:40,910 --> 01:21:43,430
stories ID is not known.

1207
01:21:48,810 --> 01:21:52,040
I'm gonna say limit 10 just to make it reasonable.

1208
01:21:56,540 --> 01:21:57,680
Wanted to get wrong here.

1209
01:21:59,450 --> 01:22:00,490
OK. Open the

1210
01:22:03,580 --> 01:22:04,770
wrong console.

1211
01:22:05,169 --> 01:22:06,330
Let's try that again.

1212
01:22:11,560 --> 01:22:13,500
It's merge Story Singular.

1213
01:22:15,700 --> 01:22:17,080
So here are

1214
01:22:19,310 --> 01:22:21,700
offhand. These are probably the 1st 10

1215
01:22:24,029 --> 01:22:24,729
and

1216
01:22:31,799 --> 01:22:32,069
um

1217
01:22:40,310 --> 01:22:40,950
OK,

1218
01:22:41,490 --> 01:22:42,689
so there's the

1219
01:22:45,060 --> 01:22:48,669
merges and that's gonna also include Unm Meges, right?

1220
01:23:01,859 --> 01:23:02,450
That's I

1221
01:23:02,830 --> 01:23:03,870
didn't mean that.

1222
01:23:09,259 --> 01:23:10,520
Oh I see. We uh

1223
01:23:15,069 --> 01:23:16,250
wanted to say there was a,

1224
01:23:16,979 --> 01:23:19,080
now the action column is just the whole thing.

1225
01:23:22,370 --> 01:23:24,390
I keep expecting there to be a verb

1226
01:23:24,930 --> 01:23:27,310
column on the uh moderation,

1227
01:23:28,189 --> 01:23:30,160
but we uh we don't actually have that. All right.

1228
01:23:30,169 --> 01:23:34,680
So we want the ones whose action starts with merged into and that mer

1229
01:23:35,149 --> 01:23:37,029
has been consistent. We've never

1230
01:23:38,180 --> 01:23:39,189
changed that

1231
01:23:40,299 --> 01:23:41,120
description.

1232
01:23:47,240 --> 01:23:49,060
So let's join against.

1233
01:23:57,629 --> 01:24:00,839
It's not story ID, it's stories dot ID

1234
01:24:01,729 --> 01:24:03,830
and I'm just building up a table of

1235
01:24:04,370 --> 01:24:05,709
all the examples

1236
01:24:06,560 --> 01:24:07,990
where merge story is not

1237
01:24:08,209 --> 01:24:08,270
me

1238
01:24:12,819 --> 01:24:13,569
and

1239
01:24:13,689 --> 01:24:15,120
action is like

1240
01:24:15,540 --> 01:24:17,020
merged into.

1241
01:24:22,209 --> 01:24:23,709
I actually wanna see that.

1242
01:24:25,859 --> 01:24:28,069
Uh It's the reason I won.

1243
01:24:29,919 --> 01:24:30,580
There we go.

1244
01:24:33,649 --> 01:24:36,509
First couple not too informative.

1245
01:24:40,649 --> 01:24:41,140
All right.

1246
01:24:48,620 --> 01:24:51,509
Say order by stories ID.

1247
01:24:51,950 --> 01:24:55,470
Desk limit 10 just to look at the most recent 10.

1248
01:24:57,140 --> 01:25:00,430
Yeah, this is stuff I've written as reasons.

1249
01:25:22,100 --> 01:25:24,279
All right. So let's take off the limit

1250
01:25:33,229 --> 01:25:35,240
and then just to count

1251
01:25:35,810 --> 01:25:37,689
and I'm not allowed to sub query like that.

1252
01:25:37,700 --> 01:25:40,589
I just wanted to grab the number of lines real fast.

1253
01:25:40,810 --> 01:25:41,410
That's fine.

1254
01:25:42,410 --> 01:25:42,990
So

1255
01:25:43,490 --> 01:25:44,899
this is my query

1256
01:25:49,569 --> 01:25:53,620
and I already can tell I'm gonna have red line hassles in two seconds, but that's ok.

1257
01:26:01,970 --> 01:26:02,390
Good.

1258
01:26:06,000 --> 01:26:07,839
And we'll dump that into slash

1259
01:26:07,959 --> 01:26:09,250
T MP slash

1260
01:26:10,470 --> 01:26:11,180
merges

1261
01:26:11,810 --> 01:26:13,009
dot TSV.

1262
01:26:14,669 --> 01:26:15,759
Let's look at that.

1263
01:26:19,509 --> 01:26:19,990
All right.

1264
01:26:20,339 --> 01:26:21,569
Looks

1265
01:26:21,689 --> 01:26:22,370
good.

1266
01:26:31,020 --> 01:26:32,870
Almost want to

1267
01:26:33,580 --> 01:26:34,220
sound.

1268
01:26:43,200 --> 01:26:43,799
So

1269
01:26:43,910 --> 01:26:45,140
duplicate links.

1270
01:26:45,350 --> 01:26:49,160
You know, we've already seen it just scroll by a bunch in the last 10.

1271
01:26:49,169 --> 01:26:50,290
That's most of them.

1272
01:26:55,680 --> 01:26:58,939
I know that's a reason. So if I said

1273
01:27:05,029 --> 01:27:07,169
712. Ok.

1274
01:27:09,669 --> 01:27:14,129
Huh. That's actually a pretty big drop from the 777.

1275
01:27:15,879 --> 01:27:20,379
It shouldn't be possible for a story to get merged without a moderation.

1276
01:27:20,390 --> 01:27:21,479
So there shouldn't be

1277
01:27:21,629 --> 01:27:21,640
a

1278
01:27:22,470 --> 01:27:24,490
left out or joint kind of thing, should it?

1279
01:27:24,600 --> 01:27:25,890
It's easy enough to check.

1280
01:27:34,339 --> 01:27:38,120
And I'm into fighting red line, which I really don't enjoy doing.

1281
01:27:52,689 --> 01:27:54,399
Yeah. That's ridiculous. But it worked.

1282
01:27:59,450 --> 01:28:01,600
That's still only 712.

1283
01:28:04,520 --> 01:28:05,060
Hm.

1284
01:28:05,870 --> 01:28:06,520
It's like a

1285
01:28:07,100 --> 01:28:10,270
10% difference between 7, 12 and 777.

1286
01:28:10,700 --> 01:28:12,160
Do you think that's worth investigating?

1287
01:28:28,020 --> 01:28:28,600
Yeah.

1288
01:28:30,370 --> 01:28:31,589
Deleted. I didn't

1289
01:28:33,160 --> 01:28:35,350
in neither query did I,

1290
01:28:36,759 --> 01:28:38,109
well, maybe it is deleted.

1291
01:28:40,520 --> 01:28:42,350
Do you know stories? Just don't

1292
01:28:46,470 --> 01:28:50,250
if a story is merged it's almost never deleted.

1293
01:28:59,129 --> 01:28:59,750
Come here.

1294
01:29:13,490 --> 01:29:16,669
Yeah. There have only been seven of those. So this isn't

1295
01:29:17,080 --> 01:29:17,950
deletion.

1296
01:29:27,810 --> 01:29:31,330
So this gets us 745

1297
01:29:32,109 --> 01:29:34,919
does action like merged into filter down?

1298
01:29:36,330 --> 01:29:37,910
Yes.

1299
01:29:40,310 --> 01:29:43,430
Yeah. You know, I was doing the the left outer join.

1300
01:29:44,430 --> 01:29:46,410
So if I said

1301
01:29:50,100 --> 01:29:53,100
Count Star, this should be the number we already saw.

1302
01:29:54,270 --> 01:29:57,620
Yes. And then if I get rid of the merged into,

1303
01:29:58,520 --> 01:30:00,220
oh, I think I know what this might be.

1304
01:30:01,390 --> 01:30:03,950
Now we get 779. OK. So

1305
01:30:07,669 --> 01:30:08,600
it's Sam

1306
01:30:10,870 --> 01:30:12,129
for a while

1307
01:30:14,189 --> 01:30:16,750
for the longest time story emerging

1308
01:30:18,390 --> 01:30:20,370
was sort of a special

1309
01:30:20,609 --> 01:30:21,799
operation

1310
01:30:22,430 --> 01:30:29,890
and the controller for stories was written so that if the moderator merged a story,

1311
01:30:30,169 --> 01:30:33,319
the other edits on the form were ignored

1312
01:30:35,069 --> 01:30:36,290
and this was

1313
01:30:37,729 --> 01:30:39,310
the source of many hassles.

1314
01:30:40,450 --> 01:30:41,910
So if I said

1315
01:30:42,979 --> 01:30:43,700
select re

1316
01:30:44,890 --> 01:30:45,479
from

1317
01:30:46,509 --> 01:30:48,439
Moderations where

1318
01:30:52,649 --> 01:30:54,000
action like

1319
01:30:55,879 --> 01:30:57,459
merged into

1320
01:30:59,290 --> 01:31:01,740
and action not like

1321
01:31:03,040 --> 01:31:06,500
merged into. And so the net effect of this is

1322
01:31:08,290 --> 01:31:11,839
the action will contain the phrase merged into,

1323
01:31:14,549 --> 01:31:19,080
but it might not be the first thing because the action is generated from

1324
01:31:19,560 --> 01:31:24,399
all of the edits that the moderator makes And so if the moderator edits a title

1325
01:31:24,750 --> 01:31:30,479
and merges, it might say that they updated the title comma merged into blah.

1326
01:31:32,819 --> 01:31:32,839
Uh

1327
01:31:33,160 --> 01:31:34,459
So let's say

1328
01:31:34,759 --> 01:31:36,140
limit 10.

1329
01:31:36,740 --> 01:31:38,200
Yeah, so here's,

1330
01:31:40,490 --> 01:31:43,189
oh no, that's the I wanted the action field,

1331
01:31:45,379 --> 01:31:48,339
but you can see actually me doing it of

1332
01:31:48,939 --> 01:31:50,620
remove story text

1333
01:31:51,299 --> 01:31:52,080
or

1334
01:31:52,629 --> 01:31:55,279
story text is not for summarizing or.

1335
01:31:55,290 --> 01:31:58,990
So this is me changing the title or changing the story text as well.

1336
01:32:01,609 --> 01:32:05,029
Yeah. So these are changed description from

1337
01:32:06,140 --> 01:32:06,839
and then

1338
01:32:07,229 --> 01:32:08,759
where is it out at the end?

1339
01:32:10,060 --> 01:32:11,200
Yeah, two,

1340
01:32:11,209 --> 01:32:15,680
no description changed markdown description because it's so redundant and then

1341
01:32:15,950 --> 01:32:20,290
comma merged into art. So it's just the potential for it to be.

1342
01:32:20,600 --> 01:32:22,459
So if we said count Star

1343
01:32:24,140 --> 01:32:25,200
and get rid of the limit,

1344
01:32:27,450 --> 01:32:30,990
it's only 34 out of the,

1345
01:32:32,029 --> 01:32:33,919
what was that? About 60.

1346
01:32:34,850 --> 01:32:36,640
So there's half of our story

1347
01:32:52,770 --> 01:32:53,200
Castro

1348
01:32:53,569 --> 01:32:55,160
Moderations.

1349
01:33:09,629 --> 01:33:11,049
So if we change this

1350
01:33:11,799 --> 01:33:12,779
to say

1351
01:33:15,040 --> 01:33:17,520
action like merge into the start

1352
01:33:18,490 --> 01:33:19,189
or

1353
01:33:19,350 --> 01:33:21,009
action like

1354
01:33:21,370 --> 01:33:22,830
percent comma

1355
01:33:23,640 --> 01:33:25,149
merged into

1356
01:33:26,140 --> 01:33:26,950
percent

1357
01:33:30,879 --> 01:33:33,299
that gets us up to 744

1358
01:33:40,080 --> 01:33:40,089
I

1359
01:33:40,270 --> 01:33:41,779
see even there, there's like

1360
01:33:41,950 --> 01:33:41,959
a

1361
01:33:43,330 --> 01:33:44,270
half by one

1362
01:33:45,020 --> 01:33:49,430
cause it was 7-Eleven plus 34 and we ended up with 744

1363
01:33:50,189 --> 01:33:53,500
like I'm not gonna track down the last 7% but I feel like we're

1364
01:33:53,509 --> 01:33:57,649
or the last 1% but I feel like 5% is maybe worth it.

1365
01:34:03,850 --> 01:34:05,089
Let's take a look at these.

1366
01:34:14,600 --> 01:34:21,120
The only way I can think of to diagnose this is to do just a big giant joint of

1367
01:34:22,299 --> 01:34:25,160
find me everything in the first query. That's not in the second one.

1368
01:34:35,149 --> 01:34:37,049
Um stories where merge

1369
01:34:37,569 --> 01:34:40,029
merge story ID

1370
01:34:40,319 --> 01:34:41,799
is not, no,

1371
01:34:42,330 --> 01:34:44,209
not, no. And

1372
01:34:46,740 --> 01:34:48,160
sport ID

1373
01:34:49,029 --> 01:34:50,359
is not in

1374
01:34:51,419 --> 01:34:52,959
select short id

1375
01:34:54,560 --> 01:34:55,279
dot dot dot

1376
01:34:57,279 --> 01:34:58,220
And then

1377
01:34:59,500 --> 01:35:00,410
thanks red line.

1378
01:35:00,750 --> 01:35:01,959
All right. So here's

1379
01:35:02,720 --> 01:35:03,529
a handful.

1380
01:35:05,540 --> 01:35:06,959
I'm going to

1381
01:35:08,240 --> 01:35:10,589
grab this short ID and open it

1382
01:35:10,689 --> 01:35:13,000
off screen so I can just

1383
01:35:13,339 --> 01:35:15,339
do it as a logged in moderator

1384
01:35:17,270 --> 01:35:19,589
because maybe there's something weird here.

1385
01:35:23,129 --> 01:35:24,450
So yeah, this one

1386
01:35:24,740 --> 01:35:26,169
was indeed merged

1387
01:35:26,649 --> 01:35:28,029
and it was just a um

1388
01:35:29,580 --> 01:35:31,029
some kind of alternate link

1389
01:35:31,660 --> 01:35:33,040
or somebody wrote it up.

1390
01:35:44,270 --> 01:35:45,209
So how is there?

1391
01:35:46,089 --> 01:35:46,529
Let's,

1392
01:36:20,259 --> 01:36:20,939
so there

1393
01:36:21,149 --> 01:36:22,660
is a moderation

1394
01:36:31,479 --> 01:36:32,919
and it's a dupe

1395
01:36:37,649 --> 01:36:40,330
like I noticed this, this title here

1396
01:36:40,720 --> 01:36:41,500
matches

1397
01:36:42,220 --> 01:36:42,879
this.

1398
01:36:44,750 --> 01:36:45,779
So

1399
01:36:49,040 --> 01:36:51,609
did we just get this one, URL

1400
01:36:52,529 --> 01:36:53,990
submitted multiple times?

1401
01:36:54,000 --> 01:36:57,990
Cause that actually does happen fairly often with merged stories where

1402
01:37:00,209 --> 01:37:01,390
either the,

1403
01:37:01,979 --> 01:37:04,180
the dupe detector doesn't fire

1404
01:37:05,160 --> 01:37:08,810
because there's some slight difference that it didn't normalize away

1405
01:37:09,740 --> 01:37:11,959
or something else happened. And so then there's

1406
01:37:13,120 --> 01:37:14,390
duplicate for dinner.

1407
01:37:15,520 --> 01:37:18,080
The action here is that I deleted the story.

1408
01:37:25,729 --> 01:37:27,529
This must be the um

1409
01:37:33,569 --> 01:37:35,740
this must be that hassle with

1410
01:37:36,370 --> 01:37:38,859
if you change the merge ID stuff doesn't

1411
01:37:39,500 --> 01:37:41,720
change. There was another one where

1412
01:37:42,520 --> 01:37:47,060
if I click delete on a story, it wouldn't just set deleted.

1413
01:37:47,069 --> 01:37:49,379
A it would throw away the other edits in the tab.

1414
01:37:50,759 --> 01:37:53,259
So that might be these other

1415
01:37:53,779 --> 01:37:55,129
what? 30?

1416
01:38:03,500 --> 01:38:06,350
It's weird that there's a moderation for

1417
01:38:07,649 --> 01:38:11,169
un deleting this story, but not for deleting this story.

1418
01:38:38,339 --> 01:38:40,270
Ok. So it was only submitted once

1419
01:38:45,379 --> 01:38:46,899
if I would by idea.

1420
01:38:58,450 --> 01:39:01,180
Yeah, there's an un delete, but nothing else.

1421
01:39:05,129 --> 01:39:06,540
Now, how is that possible?

1422
01:39:07,649 --> 01:39:09,990
It's possible the original submitter

1423
01:39:12,339 --> 01:39:13,479
removed it.

1424
01:39:13,740 --> 01:39:14,240
Right.

1425
01:39:15,919 --> 01:39:16,959
Yes,

1426
01:39:17,200 --> 01:39:17,970
actually,

1427
01:39:20,240 --> 01:39:22,419
and this story was posted

1428
01:39:22,899 --> 01:39:25,089
seven years ago. I am

1429
01:39:25,459 --> 01:39:27,100
sure not gonna remember that.

1430
01:39:29,540 --> 01:39:30,330
Let's look at

1431
01:39:30,439 --> 01:39:30,450
a

1432
01:39:30,709 --> 01:39:31,799
newer one.

1433
01:39:42,919 --> 01:39:43,870
So we've got

1434
01:39:45,529 --> 01:39:48,029
HTSSPG.

1435
01:39:57,140 --> 01:39:59,240
So this is a story about

1436
01:40:02,240 --> 01:40:03,089
ah some kind.

1437
01:40:04,600 --> 01:40:05,399
Yeah, I think,

1438
01:40:09,229 --> 01:40:10,390
and if I said,

1439
01:40:16,160 --> 01:40:19,109
let's find all the Moderations related to it,

1440
01:40:27,939 --> 01:40:28,470
that's

1441
01:40:35,350 --> 01:40:37,350
so this was a year ago.

1442
01:40:37,810 --> 01:40:42,870
This is weird. It shouldn't be possible for this story to have

1443
01:40:43,229 --> 01:40:45,490
the merge story ID set

1444
01:40:46,939 --> 01:40:48,069
without there being,

1445
01:40:51,080 --> 01:40:54,379
without there being a moderation to match.

1446
01:40:54,669 --> 01:40:55,830
You know, I look at

1447
01:40:55,979 --> 01:40:57,359
it. Um I've got

1448
01:40:57,490 --> 01:40:57,509
it

1449
01:40:58,060 --> 01:40:58,529
come here.

1450
01:41:02,740 --> 01:41:04,100
There's something else that pops out.

1451
01:41:06,689 --> 01:41:08,430
I'm gonna bring it up here. So

1452
01:41:09,240 --> 01:41:11,520
this story, nothing too exciting.

1453
01:41:11,529 --> 01:41:14,939
You know, something about compression and text classification.

1454
01:41:16,080 --> 01:41:20,419
Something that catches my eye is that Hunter merged this

1455
01:41:20,930 --> 01:41:22,379
or Hunter submitted

1456
01:41:23,160 --> 01:41:23,459
the

1457
01:41:24,379 --> 01:41:25,700
second link

1458
01:41:25,910 --> 01:41:27,899
and Hunter is a site moderator

1459
01:41:28,830 --> 01:41:29,649
and

1460
01:41:30,399 --> 01:41:33,759
the story form is weird about moderators.

1461
01:41:38,779 --> 01:41:41,049
So let's grab these submitter names.

1462
01:41:46,089 --> 01:41:47,609
Um Stories

1463
01:41:47,870 --> 01:41:50,870
cause if these are all moderators that would explain it

1464
01:41:51,200 --> 01:41:52,549
the story form.

1465
01:41:56,129 --> 01:41:57,229
Yeah, it's all,

1466
01:41:57,689 --> 01:42:02,129
it's all callbacks, it's active record callbacks and I've hated this bug

1467
01:42:02,419 --> 01:42:04,870
and it bit me even two weeks ago.

1468
01:42:05,270 --> 01:42:07,029
Join users

1469
01:42:08,810 --> 01:42:09,479
on

1470
01:42:09,669 --> 01:42:11,990
stories dot user ID

1471
01:42:13,930 --> 01:42:16,240
equals users dot id.

1472
01:42:17,649 --> 01:42:19,209
Let's get rid of this

1473
01:42:19,479 --> 01:42:22,339
desk or limit 10 because we've only got 30.

1474
01:42:27,520 --> 01:42:28,529
Ok. So

1475
01:42:29,479 --> 01:42:32,459
all, but three of these are site moderators.

1476
01:42:33,000 --> 01:42:35,100
So what's happened here is

1477
01:42:37,029 --> 01:42:38,209
I hate this bug.

1478
01:42:38,910 --> 01:42:40,799
I don't think it's even in the issue tracker,

1479
01:42:41,910 --> 01:42:43,560
although I know which bug it goes on.

1480
01:42:44,540 --> 01:42:45,250
So,

1481
01:42:49,759 --> 01:42:50,810
where am I here?

1482
01:42:51,580 --> 01:42:52,319
Um

1483
01:42:56,419 --> 01:42:59,930
We've talked about how the story's controller is overloaded and does a lot of stuff.

1484
01:43:00,919 --> 01:43:02,270
Well, there is one

1485
01:43:02,560 --> 01:43:03,560
edit form

1486
01:43:05,089 --> 01:43:05,799
if

1487
01:43:06,569 --> 01:43:08,669
and when you host to it,

1488
01:43:10,379 --> 01:43:12,640
um you get the form and then

1489
01:43:14,370 --> 01:43:17,279
when you submit the form, it calls the update method.

1490
01:43:18,700 --> 01:43:20,290
When you call the update method,

1491
01:43:23,350 --> 01:43:26,209
it checks if you're allowed to edit it, which is to say,

1492
01:43:26,509 --> 01:43:30,049
are you the person who submitted it and it's only a few hours old

1493
01:43:30,370 --> 01:43:32,089
or are you a moderator?

1494
01:43:32,740 --> 01:43:35,200
And then it sets this virtual attribute

1495
01:43:36,200 --> 01:43:37,279
story editor.

1496
01:43:38,680 --> 01:43:42,459
And the thing that's missing here is boy, where does the moderation get created?

1497
01:43:45,569 --> 01:43:47,379
Well, it's not in the controller

1498
01:43:49,310 --> 01:43:49,939
uh mo

1499
01:43:50,419 --> 01:43:51,129
story

1500
01:43:53,000 --> 01:43:53,870
instead

1501
01:43:55,930 --> 01:43:59,060
before save the log moderation hook calls.

1502
01:44:00,700 --> 01:44:02,580
And the moderation hook says

1503
01:44:05,319 --> 01:44:06,959
if this is a new record,

1504
01:44:07,529 --> 01:44:09,410
well, if this is a brand new record,

1505
01:44:10,290 --> 01:44:12,870
we don't have to log in moderation because it hasn't been persisted.

1506
01:44:14,470 --> 01:44:15,060
And

1507
01:44:15,709 --> 01:44:18,089
if you are not editing from suggestions

1508
01:44:20,459 --> 01:44:21,200
or

1509
01:44:21,569 --> 01:44:23,080
you are the submitter,

1510
01:44:24,330 --> 01:44:28,240
oh, you are editing your own story. And so the concept of

1511
01:44:28,540 --> 01:44:29,189
is a

1512
01:44:29,339 --> 01:44:31,200
moderator editing, this

1513
01:44:31,890 --> 01:44:33,560
is implicit

1514
01:44:33,759 --> 01:44:37,169
in the false path through this giant

1515
01:44:37,290 --> 01:44:37,689
bullion.

1516
01:44:38,720 --> 01:44:40,919
And so what the short version is

1517
01:44:41,350 --> 01:44:46,660
when a moderator edits their own story, it doesn't create entries in the mod log.

1518
01:44:47,180 --> 01:44:48,060
And so

1519
01:44:49,390 --> 01:44:52,140
the other unmarked stories there

1520
01:44:54,060 --> 01:44:54,830
r

1521
01:44:58,669 --> 01:45:01,750
the ones where a moderator submitted a story

1522
01:45:02,080 --> 01:45:07,370
and realized it was a should be merged into a story that was already submitted

1523
01:45:07,649 --> 01:45:09,250
and did so themselves.

1524
01:45:11,029 --> 01:45:11,129
Oh

1525
01:45:16,109 --> 01:45:17,410
So that's the bug factory.

1526
01:45:19,890 --> 01:45:20,779
But this one,

1527
01:45:23,640 --> 01:45:24,979
this one has the

1528
01:45:25,220 --> 01:45:26,419
uh the different fix.

1529
01:45:29,850 --> 01:45:34,879
The different fix for this one is splitting up the story controller functionality

1530
01:45:35,279 --> 01:45:37,419
because the story controllers

1531
01:45:38,250 --> 01:45:39,350
form

1532
01:45:39,689 --> 01:45:44,029
handles both users editing their own stories and moderators who have

1533
01:45:44,040 --> 01:45:46,069
different permissions and different things they're

1534
01:45:46,080 --> 01:45:47,830
allowed to do and different timing

1535
01:45:48,479 --> 01:45:49,200
and then

1536
01:45:49,540 --> 01:45:51,299
the moderation logging

1537
01:45:51,540 --> 01:45:55,419
happens after in a callback. So let's just note that

1538
01:46:15,390 --> 01:46:17,299
moderator edits plural.

1539
01:46:17,970 --> 01:46:20,629
It's harder for me to type because they can't just curl up in my lap.

1540
01:47:22,490 --> 01:47:23,140
All right.

1541
01:47:25,009 --> 01:47:25,870
So

1542
01:47:26,390 --> 01:47:28,129
with that bug run down,

1543
01:47:29,120 --> 01:47:29,140
I

1544
01:47:29,290 --> 01:47:31,790
think we're good to go ahead with

1545
01:47:32,770 --> 01:47:33,720
the TSV.

1546
01:47:39,799 --> 01:47:41,060
We wanna say,

1547
01:47:43,120 --> 01:47:45,359
oh, red lying. Why are you doing this to me?

1548
01:47:46,419 --> 01:47:48,100
We wanna say like

1549
01:47:48,410 --> 01:47:49,240
this

1550
01:47:58,750 --> 01:48:01,310
to catch the ones where it's not

1551
01:48:01,879 --> 01:48:02,879
the first thing

1552
01:48:03,859 --> 01:48:07,640
and then I need to write parenthesis, some unknown number of characters.

1553
01:48:21,259 --> 01:48:23,259
Oh Looks like I got it in the right place, right?

1554
01:48:27,200 --> 01:48:28,450
All I did was uh

1555
01:48:30,209 --> 01:48:31,529
hit right there. I was like

1556
01:48:31,859 --> 01:48:36,299
spelled this out. So it was like 61411, you know.

1557
01:48:37,850 --> 01:48:38,470
OK.

1558
01:48:38,810 --> 01:48:40,950
And then how many lines are in this

1559
01:48:44,109 --> 01:48:46,799
still only 712

1560
01:48:48,470 --> 01:48:49,779
that should have gone up to

1561
01:48:50,399 --> 01:48:51,759
like 740

1562
01:48:55,950 --> 01:48:56,529
oh,

1563
01:48:56,839 --> 01:48:58,290
because I missed the closing

1564
01:49:00,009 --> 01:49:00,850
percent.

1565
01:49:05,939 --> 01:49:07,479
Now we got 745

1566
01:49:08,600 --> 01:49:09,209
and

1567
01:49:10,560 --> 01:49:14,250
the reason it's 745 instead of 744 is

1568
01:49:15,620 --> 01:49:18,759
it has a header line. So there's that off by one error

1569
01:49:20,169 --> 01:49:23,169
and then the rest of these are gonna be moderators doing things.

1570
01:49:25,450 --> 01:49:25,939
So

1571
01:49:27,200 --> 01:49:29,660
I feel pretty good that we've got something accurate

1572
01:49:35,740 --> 01:49:36,120
you want?

1573
01:49:36,649 --> 01:49:37,700
Let's grab that

1574
01:49:43,549 --> 01:49:45,490
and I'm gonna fire up

1575
01:49:46,290 --> 01:49:47,770
Libre office.

1576
01:49:48,040 --> 01:49:51,109
So we're about to switch from dark mode to light mode.

1577
01:50:00,560 --> 01:50:05,129
I'm gonna open this off stream because I'm gonna have to like browse files and stuff.

1578
01:50:07,350 --> 01:50:08,259
So that's

1579
01:50:08,850 --> 01:50:09,169
code

1580
01:50:09,459 --> 01:50:10,540
lobsters

1581
01:50:10,709 --> 01:50:12,560
merges dot TSV.

1582
01:50:13,580 --> 01:50:14,089
Good.

1583
01:50:14,700 --> 01:50:16,950
So here's the dialogue.

1584
01:50:17,939 --> 01:50:20,399
So we have the short ID, the title

1585
01:50:22,490 --> 01:50:25,750
and the merging response. So this all looks pretty reasonable

1586
01:50:26,779 --> 01:50:27,750
and hit, ok,

1587
01:50:28,450 --> 01:50:29,259
and

1588
01:50:30,339 --> 01:50:31,680
bring this back on stream.

1589
01:50:36,310 --> 01:50:37,609
All right. So

1590
01:50:37,970 --> 01:50:41,490
this clearly there was some long ass reason on something.

1591
01:50:42,290 --> 01:50:45,069
I'm gonna shrink that down so we can fit on screen.

1592
01:50:46,529 --> 01:50:49,390
Uh If folks want to tell me how the font size is.

1593
01:50:50,569 --> 01:50:52,509
Uh gy, yeah, I know

1594
01:50:53,029 --> 01:50:55,109
I could probably use um

1595
01:50:56,319 --> 01:50:57,459
what's the name

1596
01:50:57,709 --> 01:51:00,339
like visit data or data set. But

1597
01:51:01,370 --> 01:51:04,290
as neat as I think those things are, I don't

1598
01:51:04,790 --> 01:51:08,049
actually have them installed and know how to use them.

1599
01:51:09,209 --> 01:51:10,830
Font is a little small, but it's fine.

1600
01:51:10,839 --> 01:51:14,990
I'll, I'll nudge up a little bit and we'll just kind of chop more off of this

1601
01:51:17,359 --> 01:51:18,229
and

1602
01:51:18,620 --> 01:51:19,350
this.

1603
01:51:22,620 --> 01:51:23,009
Correct.

1604
01:51:24,209 --> 01:51:25,620
So here

1605
01:51:28,770 --> 01:51:31,100
there's a quick way to say

1606
01:51:34,490 --> 01:51:36,759
I don't want the text to overhang.

1607
01:51:38,629 --> 01:51:39,729
I don't want to rap.

1608
01:51:47,240 --> 01:51:51,390
Just I see that there's like this one is overhanging into here

1609
01:51:51,629 --> 01:51:55,600
and I want to hide that because I know it's

1610
01:51:55,770 --> 01:51:58,379
when I skim it's gonna be hard to see.

1611
01:52:03,939 --> 01:52:05,009
What's the view.

1612
01:52:14,129 --> 01:52:16,310
There's something. All right. Well,

1613
01:52:24,669 --> 01:52:26,209
form out these cells

1614
01:52:27,160 --> 01:52:28,169
and I say,

1615
01:52:32,740 --> 01:52:33,859
yeah, not that one.

1616
01:52:35,430 --> 01:52:36,330
It's a rap.

1617
01:52:37,870 --> 01:52:40,129
It's weird. The moderation is create as back in the storm.

1618
01:52:42,520 --> 01:52:43,490
Yeah. Drag it

1619
01:52:43,870 --> 01:52:49,009
is. Um, it is just one of those slightly hairy places where

1620
01:52:50,399 --> 01:52:55,299
it is some of the first functionality written in the code base

1621
01:52:55,669 --> 01:52:58,229
by someone who wasn't very familiar with rails

1622
01:52:58,640 --> 01:52:59,350
and

1623
01:53:00,100 --> 01:53:02,279
it wasn't as clear as,

1624
01:53:07,689 --> 01:53:10,569
yeah, that's fine. We got a couple extra lines, but

1625
01:53:18,339 --> 01:53:19,319
all right. So

1626
01:53:24,479 --> 01:53:26,500
now what I would love is

1627
01:53:28,660 --> 01:53:29,379
if

1628
01:53:31,390 --> 01:53:36,839
it was possible to do a multi cursor thing and select every line that included

1629
01:53:37,410 --> 01:53:39,240
like merging response

1630
01:53:44,299 --> 01:53:45,859
as far as I know,

1631
01:53:46,069 --> 01:53:47,910
I can't actually do that.

1632
01:53:50,790 --> 01:53:52,040
And I try and be

1633
01:53:52,430 --> 01:53:54,660
really consistent in these messages.

1634
01:53:54,930 --> 01:53:58,669
Uh I wasn't super consistent at first but then

1635
01:53:58,970 --> 01:54:04,910
sort of built out a set of standard messages and I have Firefox set to remember the uh

1636
01:54:05,709 --> 01:54:07,649
form, input on the story form.

1637
01:54:08,660 --> 01:54:09,879
So those are uh

1638
01:54:12,250 --> 01:54:14,680
pretty repetitive, which I think helps.

1639
01:54:15,740 --> 01:54:18,200
So if I said merging write out,

1640
01:54:25,330 --> 01:54:25,870
yeah,

1641
01:54:26,589 --> 01:54:27,859
honestly, I could do this and be

1642
01:54:27,979 --> 01:54:28,970
easier couldn't I

1643
01:54:31,720 --> 01:54:33,370
for some of these? All right. Hold on.

1644
01:54:37,259 --> 01:54:40,770
Oh, don't open a new one. Let's just add a tab.

1645
01:54:43,790 --> 01:54:46,520
And so for everything that says uh

1646
01:54:51,609 --> 01:54:55,709
so what's a, what are useful categories? MX Butterfly?

1647
01:54:56,479 --> 01:54:57,520
Yeah, I don't know that one.

1648
01:54:58,169 --> 01:54:59,990
Not an emacs guy never have been.

1649
01:55:04,859 --> 01:55:07,149
So there are 99 of those.

1650
01:55:24,259 --> 01:55:25,689
Yeah. Don't need two there.

1651
01:55:35,870 --> 01:55:37,569
And if there are 99

1652
01:55:38,200 --> 01:55:41,509
it's just easier to do it by hand than write the macro

1653
01:55:44,609 --> 01:55:47,129
and also give me a chance to kind of skim some of these others.

1654
01:56:04,020 --> 01:56:04,640
Ok.

1655
01:56:09,229 --> 01:56:13,580
So the other one is very clearly merging reply

1656
01:56:13,859 --> 01:56:15,069
because I've done that a bunch.

1657
01:56:25,379 --> 01:56:27,600
It hopes if I spell things right though,

1658
01:56:31,029 --> 01:56:31,169
where

1659
01:56:31,290 --> 01:56:32,060
spots

1660
01:56:34,779 --> 01:56:36,359
only five of those

1661
01:56:39,370 --> 01:56:41,109
anybody else. Um

1662
01:56:42,319 --> 01:56:44,250
So this idea of

1663
01:56:44,799 --> 01:56:45,899
dupes,

1664
01:56:49,970 --> 01:56:51,169
how many of these,

1665
01:56:51,310 --> 01:56:53,379
we have 62 dupes? All right.

1666
01:56:56,970 --> 01:57:00,479
And I'm gonna do another search in a second for the word duplicate

1667
01:57:00,939 --> 01:57:02,549
because there surely will be some

1668
01:57:09,109 --> 01:57:13,049
and just hitting these, these most popular ones real fast in vim,

1669
01:57:13,529 --> 01:57:16,799
it's easier than churning through them in the Libre office because we have,

1670
01:57:16,810 --> 01:57:19,799
you know, 740 some rather than, uh,

1671
01:57:20,080 --> 01:57:22,729
like the last time I categorized stuff where it was

1672
01:57:23,060 --> 01:57:25,209
100 or something and we didn't actually

1673
01:57:25,569 --> 01:57:27,250
need to use all of them.

1674
01:57:30,270 --> 01:57:31,560
Oh, no, it's saying

1675
01:57:32,149 --> 01:57:35,810
more than 99. 0, no. So I actually

1676
01:57:38,299 --> 01:57:39,549
maybe should have.

1677
01:57:40,750 --> 01:57:43,850
What line are we on? 621? All right, we'll get in the home stretch,

1678
01:57:44,470 --> 01:57:46,609
but there may be responses that I missed.

1679
01:57:49,339 --> 01:57:50,459
All right. So

1680
01:57:51,350 --> 01:57:52,890
where was that last search?

1681
01:57:54,319 --> 01:57:57,359
So, if I went down and searched up, yeah, here's a couple.

1682
01:58:22,810 --> 01:58:23,470
Come on.

1683
01:58:28,339 --> 01:58:29,600
You just rapping on me.

1684
01:58:32,549 --> 01:58:33,169
Thank you.

1685
01:59:12,740 --> 01:59:14,419
Go ahead. Cat. Make yourself at home.

1686
01:59:14,560 --> 01:59:15,609
Knock my stuff down.

1687
01:59:32,540 --> 01:59:33,799
How are there so many?

1688
01:59:38,310 --> 01:59:40,350
Oh, I'm only at line 400. That's how,

1689
01:59:42,970 --> 01:59:45,229
so lots of responses.

1690
02:00:04,000 --> 02:00:06,220
Oh, there we go. There's my limit. So

1691
02:00:08,640 --> 02:00:10,979
the other one I know I've used a few times,

1692
02:00:11,729 --> 02:00:13,589
especially if I'm grumpy and I'm expecting that

1693
02:00:13,600 --> 02:00:15,939
I'm gonna be cleaning up after nonsense.

1694
02:00:16,850 --> 02:00:19,870
Is I have sometimes said merging Hot take

1695
02:00:21,390 --> 02:00:25,209
and I am gonna go ahead and categorize them as responses

1696
02:00:26,649 --> 02:00:27,790
because

1697
02:00:31,520 --> 02:00:34,200
they are. I was just grumpy about them

1698
02:00:34,540 --> 02:00:36,580
and feeling a little spicy myself.

1699
02:00:39,180 --> 02:00:40,049
The, uh,

1700
02:00:41,319 --> 02:00:43,439
hot takes rarely add

1701
02:00:44,220 --> 02:00:46,520
much two stories.

1702
02:00:47,100 --> 02:00:48,049
This is a

1703
02:00:49,270 --> 02:00:51,640
sort of a personal opinion more than a, uh,

1704
02:00:52,169 --> 02:00:54,620
professional opinion. Oh, that's interesting.

1705
02:00:54,629 --> 02:00:57,229
This one is both a dupe and a roundup.

1706
02:00:58,200 --> 02:00:59,419
I am just,

1707
02:00:59,879 --> 02:01:03,930
it's a hot take and a dupe and around all. I'm just gonna leave that one as dupe.

1708
02:01:07,169 --> 02:01:07,540
Yeah.

1709
02:01:11,919 --> 02:01:13,020
Oh, this one,

1710
02:01:14,750 --> 02:01:16,569
this one is me correcting an error,

1711
02:01:24,959 --> 02:01:25,470
which

1712
02:01:28,370 --> 02:01:31,229
is going to be a response to this one.

1713
02:01:33,600 --> 02:01:36,709
Let's check. One of these is just gonna be a moderator error.

1714
02:01:42,180 --> 02:01:42,939
I'm pulling up

1715
02:01:43,930 --> 02:01:44,790
that ID.

1716
02:01:47,259 --> 02:01:48,680
Yeah. So this is a,

1717
02:01:51,819 --> 02:01:53,359
this story

1718
02:01:53,569 --> 02:01:56,350
being angry at Chromium. So this one,

1719
02:02:00,009 --> 02:02:03,470
wait, no more Google that one. Is a response.

1720
02:02:06,330 --> 02:02:07,830
Tom is a ***.

1721
02:02:23,080 --> 02:02:23,580
All right.

1722
02:02:23,939 --> 02:02:25,560
So, somewhere there is a,

1723
02:02:28,879 --> 02:02:29,339
and I,

1724
02:02:30,240 --> 02:02:33,450
it's not so many that I want to

1725
02:02:34,479 --> 02:02:36,140
break them out into

1726
02:02:44,430 --> 02:02:46,000
their own section. So

1727
02:02:51,189 --> 02:02:52,439
let's find the rest.

1728
02:02:58,759 --> 02:02:59,879
738.

1729
02:03:00,790 --> 02:03:01,450
Ok.

1730
02:03:08,629 --> 02:03:11,970
So another thing that's pretty common here is

1731
02:03:12,750 --> 02:03:14,669
if something is a write up,

1732
02:03:14,680 --> 02:03:19,330
so we got 30 of those and sometimes I call that an alternate link,

1733
02:03:20,279 --> 02:03:20,899
I guess.

1734
02:03:22,930 --> 02:03:23,919
So that's,

1735
02:03:25,709 --> 02:03:31,830
those are especially common on security stories like this open W RT.

1736
02:03:32,450 --> 02:03:33,169
So

1737
02:03:33,540 --> 02:03:35,279
the write up is

1738
02:03:36,040 --> 02:03:39,370
some sort of technical news site wrote about it.

1739
02:03:39,930 --> 02:03:43,140
But we also had submitted the original

1740
02:03:44,069 --> 02:03:47,370
link of the security researcher,

1741
02:03:51,609 --> 02:03:52,819
an alternate la

1742
02:03:57,040 --> 02:03:58,669
alternate. Well, actually,

1743
02:03:58,979 --> 02:03:59,509
yeah,

1744
02:04:00,870 --> 02:04:01,990
there is a distinction.

1745
02:04:02,310 --> 02:04:03,060
So

1746
02:04:03,470 --> 02:04:03,479
a

1747
02:04:03,660 --> 02:04:07,419
write up is third party and an alternate link is first party.

1748
02:04:07,430 --> 02:04:09,299
And the thing that pops out at me is um

1749
02:04:10,020 --> 02:04:12,859
Tickle TK nine. I don't even have to pull up this story.

1750
02:04:12,870 --> 02:04:15,270
I remember someone submitted like the uh

1751
02:04:16,580 --> 02:04:16,959
the github

1752
02:04:17,129 --> 02:04:20,879
releases page and then also their blog post where it was like

1753
02:04:21,060 --> 02:04:23,879
the blog post and the download page, something like that.

1754
02:04:24,029 --> 02:04:25,790
So that's when I use the phrase

1755
02:04:25,930 --> 02:04:27,149
alternate link.

1756
02:04:28,950 --> 02:04:31,169
And I guess if we're being

1757
02:04:31,430 --> 02:04:33,810
fair to the criticism that

1758
02:04:34,569 --> 02:04:39,109
story merging is confusing, I should split out those

1759
02:04:39,930 --> 02:04:42,589
primaries versus third party.

1760
02:04:43,520 --> 02:04:45,290
So what do we want to call those?

1761
02:04:46,370 --> 02:04:47,069
The

1762
02:04:49,729 --> 02:04:51,390
write up would be,

1763
02:04:53,799 --> 02:04:57,620
it's not a third party response. We'll just call it right up,

1764
02:04:58,359 --> 02:04:58,819
right.

1765
02:05:12,750 --> 02:05:16,330
I think you've put response or dupes on new lines a few times or maybe wrapping,

1766
02:05:16,339 --> 02:05:18,009
it's mostly wrapping.

1767
02:05:18,020 --> 02:05:22,549
But those will stand out pretty clear once I pull it back into Libre office.

1768
02:05:22,560 --> 02:05:24,470
So I'm not too worried about it.

1769
02:05:33,529 --> 02:05:35,750
There's also the possibility of accidentally

1770
02:05:36,939 --> 02:05:39,640
put two categories on something because I've moved

1771
02:05:39,649 --> 02:05:41,839
real fast on some of these text edits.

1772
02:05:41,850 --> 02:05:43,620
And again, that's gonna stand out

1773
02:05:44,060 --> 02:05:46,609
in Libre Office. So I'm not too concerned about it.

1774
02:05:53,970 --> 02:05:57,060
So for alternate links, I'm just gonna say

1775
02:05:57,870 --> 02:05:58,700
alternate

1776
02:05:58,899 --> 02:06:00,209
and we're gonna remember

1777
02:06:02,009 --> 02:06:03,620
that that means

1778
02:06:04,109 --> 02:06:06,180
it's from the same source

1779
02:06:07,879 --> 02:06:12,669
and I'm gonna pull all of these unique reasons into the

1780
02:06:15,020 --> 02:06:16,919
scratch file or into the

1781
02:06:17,660 --> 02:06:18,520
the draught

1782
02:06:19,750 --> 02:06:20,609
to

1783
02:06:20,750 --> 02:06:21,569
explain.

1784
02:06:30,240 --> 02:06:32,580
Um It looks like a reply.

1785
02:06:35,350 --> 02:06:36,379
Just one of those.

1786
02:06:41,100 --> 02:06:41,629
All right.

1787
02:06:41,950 --> 02:06:44,240
So I think that might be enough.

1788
02:06:44,970 --> 02:06:45,759
Oh Yeah,

1789
02:06:46,379 --> 02:06:47,790
into primary.

1790
02:06:51,319 --> 02:06:54,609
How many mobile links do we have? None? So this one's just a dupe link.

1791
02:06:54,620 --> 02:06:55,580
I remember this one

1792
02:06:56,029 --> 02:06:56,899
where

1793
02:06:57,350 --> 02:07:01,060
the site has a like m.whatever.com

1794
02:07:01,569 --> 02:07:05,410
or you know, question mobile equals one. And then it just provides a different

1795
02:07:05,620 --> 02:07:06,330
view.

1796
02:07:10,220 --> 02:07:10,759
Then

1797
02:07:13,540 --> 02:07:15,750
some of these are,

1798
02:07:18,479 --> 02:07:20,250
these are gonna be responses

1799
02:07:20,569 --> 02:07:21,700
or write ups.

1800
02:07:27,560 --> 02:07:29,259
This one is an alternate link

1801
02:07:31,859 --> 02:07:32,709
emerging, right?

1802
02:07:35,549 --> 02:07:38,410
This one is an alternative. I remember that

1803
02:07:44,120 --> 02:07:44,339
tagged

1804
02:07:46,470 --> 02:07:46,830
S

1805
02:07:57,189 --> 02:07:59,359
oh Yeah, there was a lot going on in that one.

1806
02:08:01,859 --> 02:08:03,149
I'm gonna call that one.

1807
02:08:03,399 --> 02:08:03,410
A

1808
02:08:03,779 --> 02:08:04,759
response

1809
02:08:13,569 --> 02:08:15,410
takes our responses

1810
02:08:17,629 --> 02:08:18,520
about this one.

1811
02:08:19,529 --> 02:08:20,200
Yeah.

1812
02:08:20,399 --> 02:08:24,640
Merging plagiarism into primary source. I remember that one. There was um

1813
02:08:25,450 --> 02:08:28,290
I wanna say it was even submitted before the primary source,

1814
02:08:28,299 --> 02:08:29,779
which was kind of gross but

1815
02:08:31,270 --> 02:08:32,689
somebody just copied

1816
02:08:33,490 --> 02:08:34,069
a uh

1817
02:08:35,779 --> 02:08:36,560
post.

1818
02:08:38,339 --> 02:08:41,629
I think I might have ended up banning the plagiarism site for this one.

1819
02:08:42,160 --> 02:08:43,879
I don't recall instantly, but

1820
02:08:45,680 --> 02:08:47,500
they just knocked off the blog post.

1821
02:08:47,509 --> 02:08:50,200
But we had already had some comments on by the time it got.

1822
02:08:52,310 --> 02:08:52,770
So

1823
02:08:54,209 --> 02:08:55,470
what am I gonna call that?

1824
02:08:56,040 --> 02:08:58,350
Don't wanna just say plagiarism make it its own

1825
02:08:58,759 --> 02:08:59,549
category.

1826
02:09:00,080 --> 02:09:00,629
It's

1827
02:09:00,759 --> 02:09:02,640
real rare. It's like a

1828
02:09:03,569 --> 02:09:05,500
maybe once a year thing.

1829
02:09:11,810 --> 02:09:12,299
Hm

1830
02:09:18,520 --> 02:09:21,830
I'm gonna classify it as a write up cause there's so few.

1831
02:09:21,839 --> 02:09:25,660
I don't know that it's worth breaking out and I'm not gonna be

1832
02:09:26,609 --> 02:09:27,240
so I'm,

1833
02:09:27,580 --> 02:09:29,399
I'm not trying to be ontological

1834
02:09:30,169 --> 02:09:31,490
complete here.

1835
02:09:32,040 --> 02:09:35,209
The goal is what's useful for writing this document for

1836
02:09:35,220 --> 02:09:38,899
users and I don't think it needs to call out.

1837
02:09:38,910 --> 02:09:40,589
Hey, don't submit plagiarism.

1838
02:09:44,779 --> 02:09:46,029
This one's a write up

1839
02:09:52,430 --> 02:09:54,500
that was already done. Done.

1840
02:09:56,970 --> 02:09:57,629
Done.

1841
02:10:07,930 --> 02:10:08,080
Come

1842
02:10:08,310 --> 02:10:08,450
down.

1843
02:10:10,120 --> 02:10:10,339
Du

1844
02:10:10,509 --> 02:10:10,779
du du

1845
02:10:10,919 --> 02:10:11,049
du,

1846
02:10:16,660 --> 02:10:17,879
that's a write up

1847
02:10:19,459 --> 02:10:22,390
and I was grumpy about if I called it content marketing.

1848
02:10:24,200 --> 02:10:25,600
Oh Free node,

1849
02:10:25,830 --> 02:10:26,439
man.

1850
02:10:26,939 --> 02:10:31,160
You know exactly which week that was what like three years and change ago.

1851
02:10:31,319 --> 02:10:33,839
There's another one that had a bunch of merges was um

1852
02:10:35,689 --> 02:10:37,390
when free note was taken over.

1853
02:10:49,069 --> 02:10:49,299
Yeah.

1854
02:10:49,870 --> 02:10:50,450
Come here.

1855
02:10:59,250 --> 02:11:00,709
That's a response.

1856
02:11:02,549 --> 02:11:07,609
That's also a response because those are a couple of hot takes and then these are

1857
02:11:08,180 --> 02:11:08,720
um

1858
02:11:11,220 --> 02:11:12,040
write ups

1859
02:11:18,140 --> 02:11:20,819
um Merging into the same story as one I should do

1860
02:11:21,350 --> 02:11:22,899
right. Run through here

1861
02:11:23,100 --> 02:11:23,640
in a minute.

1862
02:11:28,580 --> 02:11:32,979
Oh, yeah. This one X NSA Hecker drops New Zero Days Doom for Zoom.

1863
02:11:33,250 --> 02:11:34,919
Not only was it a dupe,

1864
02:11:35,529 --> 02:11:36,629
it was a, uh,

1865
02:11:36,950 --> 02:11:39,700
like a general news site and we had already had the

1866
02:11:42,000 --> 02:11:43,620
primary source submitted

1867
02:11:43,770 --> 02:11:48,490
that's real common for security news because somebody sees something interesting

1868
02:11:48,850 --> 02:11:50,580
and security is just sort of

1869
02:11:51,850 --> 02:11:53,180
always a little

1870
02:11:54,500 --> 02:11:57,220
emotionally salient. Like, it kind of grabs you.

1871
02:11:59,209 --> 02:12:01,609
I found a bunch of the times where I'm like, wow,

1872
02:12:02,370 --> 02:12:04,660
like, not only is it already posted, it's not

1873
02:12:05,319 --> 02:12:08,660
actually a ton of interesting stuff.

1874
02:12:08,950 --> 02:12:09,890
Like the only

1875
02:12:10,240 --> 02:12:13,939
interesting thing might be who is the victim rather than how

1876
02:12:21,470 --> 02:12:22,640
write ups

1877
02:12:23,160 --> 02:12:23,410
dope

1878
02:12:32,660 --> 02:12:35,029
handled response response.

1879
02:12:40,109 --> 02:12:41,680
I've wrapped around. Ok.

1880
02:12:45,379 --> 02:12:46,589
So this into s

1881
02:12:46,819 --> 02:12:47,850
story.

1882
02:12:51,270 --> 02:12:52,410
These are like

1883
02:12:55,149 --> 02:12:56,700
half responses and

1884
02:12:57,379 --> 02:12:58,600
half write ups,

1885
02:13:02,870 --> 02:13:05,089
more, more complicated.

1886
02:13:06,290 --> 02:13:07,910
They also can be.

1887
02:13:10,549 --> 02:13:12,390
There's also some same story.

1888
02:13:15,680 --> 02:13:19,410
Ah, yeah. Good Eye. I see it up here at the top, a different kind of CT log.

1889
02:13:22,240 --> 02:13:24,779
So some of these,

1890
02:13:25,259 --> 02:13:28,540
there are a couple of things so they are third party write ups.

1891
02:13:29,979 --> 02:13:32,600
This post mortem one. I think

1892
02:13:33,520 --> 02:13:36,939
I would call it an alternate because it was from the same source

1893
02:13:38,140 --> 02:13:38,839
and then

1894
02:13:40,520 --> 02:13:45,450
some of these are responses. So we're gonna have to look at those individually.

1895
02:13:53,109 --> 02:13:56,180
Yeah, I think all of those I'll have to look at individually.

1896
02:14:01,669 --> 02:14:03,089
Let's make all those links.

1897
02:14:06,009 --> 02:14:08,990
Could you explain that this one is a little backwards?

1898
02:14:14,350 --> 02:14:14,890
Oh,

1899
02:14:16,299 --> 02:14:17,060
so

1900
02:14:17,290 --> 02:14:19,770
Nintendo is suing the creator of switch emulator y you.

1901
02:14:19,779 --> 02:14:21,680
This is a little backwards but to keep together

1902
02:14:21,689 --> 02:14:24,240
links on the same story in one week emerging,

1903
02:14:24,250 --> 02:14:27,990
the third party right up into the more recent and decisive primary source.

1904
02:14:28,330 --> 02:14:29,390
So this is

1905
02:14:30,990 --> 02:14:35,129
I bet there was a time gap between the first

1906
02:14:35,140 --> 02:14:38,270
one which was a third party write up and then

1907
02:14:39,609 --> 02:14:41,029
the first party source.

1908
02:14:41,990 --> 02:14:43,209
So usually

1909
02:14:44,129 --> 02:14:46,629
that's not in the notes, That's a good one. So,

1910
02:14:49,490 --> 02:14:50,640
so this one is

1911
02:14:51,350 --> 02:14:53,470
34 at 2 p.m.

1912
02:14:55,140 --> 02:14:58,080
and this one is 228 so six days earlier and

1913
02:14:58,370 --> 02:15:00,990
that's why I kind of called it out as a little backwards cause

1914
02:15:05,359 --> 02:15:07,700
merge into the earliest

1915
02:15:09,299 --> 02:15:10,189
submitted

1916
02:15:10,839 --> 02:15:12,549
rather than the latest submitted.

1917
02:15:13,899 --> 02:15:15,939
But here it was intention

1918
02:15:16,080 --> 02:15:19,990
or with this idea of preferred primary sources.

1919
02:15:21,350 --> 02:15:24,470
So maybe we're seeing some kind of priority order.

1920
02:15:24,839 --> 02:15:25,890
So good eye.

1921
02:15:27,180 --> 02:15:29,000
Yeah, actually on these like

1922
02:15:29,620 --> 02:15:30,870
technical write ups,

1923
02:15:34,390 --> 02:15:35,399
I think.

1924
02:15:38,390 --> 02:15:39,089
Yeah. So

1925
02:15:39,549 --> 02:15:42,919
really what's going on here is like there's this practice and then

1926
02:15:43,270 --> 02:15:46,040
just the question of deciding which

1927
02:15:46,240 --> 02:15:48,379
will be the primary

1928
02:15:49,120 --> 02:15:49,959
story.

1929
02:15:54,459 --> 02:15:58,660
And this is kind of the decision tree of first, is it the primary source?

1930
02:16:00,200 --> 02:16:00,910
Second,

1931
02:16:01,589 --> 02:16:03,020
is it the earlier one?

1932
02:16:05,509 --> 02:16:06,479
And this one,

1933
02:16:06,830 --> 02:16:09,129
this honestly is a little fuzzy

1934
02:16:09,669 --> 02:16:12,479
and we could go through them. But I think,

1935
02:16:17,979 --> 02:16:19,959
you know, if it's an hour or two,

1936
02:16:21,089 --> 02:16:23,149
especially if there's just one or two comments,

1937
02:16:23,350 --> 02:16:24,830
I'll go ahead and merge

1938
02:16:25,959 --> 02:16:29,740
an earlier news story into the technical right up.

1939
02:16:29,939 --> 02:16:32,009
But if it's days, well,

1940
02:16:33,629 --> 02:16:34,849
no, actually, I think that's,

1941
02:16:35,419 --> 02:16:36,690
I think that's pretty consistent

1942
02:16:37,940 --> 02:16:39,429
as kind of the tiebreaker.

1943
02:16:39,589 --> 02:16:39,610
So

1944
02:16:39,799 --> 02:16:41,349
the earliest submitted.

1945
02:16:42,568 --> 02:16:43,109
All right.

1946
02:16:45,120 --> 02:16:45,500
Right.

1947
02:16:48,159 --> 02:16:50,678
So great questionnaire Rich. Thank you.

1948
02:17:30,218 --> 02:17:35,750
This is sort of an ultimate take on this and then merge in responses,

1949
02:17:35,849 --> 02:17:37,549
merge in updates.

1950
02:17:40,900 --> 02:17:41,610
Like I haven't

1951
02:17:41,780 --> 02:17:46,459
categorized many as updates, but that's part of what these same story ones are.

1952
02:17:55,419 --> 02:17:56,558
All right. So,

1953
02:18:00,529 --> 02:18:03,109
oh, this one, I remember this one. It was um

1954
02:18:06,290 --> 02:18:07,280
a uh

1955
02:18:10,490 --> 02:18:13,150
oh I don't know if it was first or third party, so I have to pull it up later.

1956
02:18:14,419 --> 02:18:14,799
All right.

1957
02:18:16,280 --> 02:18:18,490
So another thing that pops out at me.

1958
02:18:19,179 --> 02:18:21,240
Oh, wait. Did I finish the primary sources?

1959
02:18:22,000 --> 02:18:22,940
No,

1960
02:18:24,379 --> 02:18:25,799
because here's what I missed.

1961
02:18:26,870 --> 02:18:28,030
Maybe I just missed it.

1962
02:18:33,068 --> 02:18:35,568
I think that was a write up. Let me double check that one

1963
02:18:43,989 --> 02:18:45,678
and I'm fighting the cursor.

1964
02:18:45,949 --> 02:18:46,508
Come here,

1965
02:18:54,120 --> 02:18:54,190
just

1966
02:18:54,820 --> 02:18:56,290
grabbed the tab at the end of it.

1967
02:18:59,599 --> 02:19:00,769
Oh, yeah. This one

1968
02:19:02,477 --> 02:19:03,539
is third party.

1969
02:19:04,599 --> 02:19:06,049
Yeah, I like that guy's blog though.

1970
02:19:10,999 --> 02:19:12,598
So that one was

1971
02:19:12,968 --> 02:19:13,909
a write out

1972
02:19:19,990 --> 02:19:20,570
and then

1973
02:19:22,169 --> 02:19:23,589
this, I sure don't remember.

1974
02:19:26,540 --> 02:19:28,429
Looks like I just missed one or two in the

1975
02:19:28,440 --> 02:19:30,160
middle because all the rest of these are done.

1976
02:19:31,169 --> 02:19:33,379
Strip to the bottom. Look back.

1977
02:19:34,990 --> 02:19:38,200
Oh, it looks like we've got some of these safe stories. Same stories.

1978
02:19:49,830 --> 02:19:51,459
Yeah. Looks like there's plenty actually.

1979
02:19:54,330 --> 02:19:56,870
All right. So I lost my place investigating that one.

1980
02:19:57,559 --> 02:19:58,780
We'll just start from here.

1981
02:20:28,330 --> 02:20:29,620
Can I search for,

1982
02:20:29,730 --> 02:20:30,309
hang on

1983
02:20:30,490 --> 02:20:32,700
primary source

1984
02:20:33,889 --> 02:20:34,750
and then

1985
02:20:40,660 --> 02:20:42,509
any character

1986
02:20:44,330 --> 02:20:45,490
that's not a tab.

1987
02:20:51,879 --> 02:20:53,120
So say

1988
02:20:53,250 --> 02:20:53,790
no

1989
02:20:54,559 --> 02:20:55,360
tab

1990
02:20:55,719 --> 02:20:56,540
star

1991
02:20:58,330 --> 02:20:59,000
to the end.

1992
02:21:00,730 --> 02:21:01,599
There we go.

1993
02:21:03,019 --> 02:21:05,230
That cuts out all the ones that have already been looked at.

1994
02:21:06,400 --> 02:21:09,110
So this was right up.

1995
02:21:10,599 --> 02:21:11,900
That one. I don't know.

1996
02:21:13,269 --> 02:21:14,769
This one is an alternate.

1997
02:21:21,780 --> 02:21:22,549
What's this?

1998
02:21:26,379 --> 02:21:28,000
This one was a write up.

1999
02:21:31,719 --> 02:21:34,129
This one was a response.

2000
02:21:38,049 --> 02:21:43,509
Only 14 of these left and then we can get back to Libre office and sear your retinas.

2001
02:21:50,040 --> 02:21:51,169
This one's all right up.

2002
02:21:57,990 --> 02:21:59,570
This ones are right up.

2003
02:22:03,940 --> 02:22:06,519
This one's I guess I'd call it an alternate.

2004
02:22:06,830 --> 02:22:09,309
So it was the same story.

2005
02:22:09,469 --> 02:22:11,150
So same story

2006
02:22:11,950 --> 02:22:14,730
also just means an independent thing.

2007
02:22:15,080 --> 02:22:18,879
So like in this one, there was an exploit called Checkmate

2008
02:22:20,280 --> 02:22:25,339
where at the same day there was the original announcement and then there was another

2009
02:22:25,860 --> 02:22:27,299
interview with the author

2010
02:22:27,870 --> 02:22:29,219
and I wonder,

2011
02:22:30,080 --> 02:22:32,360
I think I could just call that an alternate

2012
02:22:32,370 --> 02:22:35,209
cause it's an interview with the primary source.

2013
02:22:36,379 --> 02:22:37,549
Yeah, I think that's fair.

2014
02:22:43,269 --> 02:22:43,870
This one's

2015
02:22:44,429 --> 02:22:44,440
a,

2016
02:22:47,429 --> 02:22:48,769
this one's a response.

2017
02:22:58,169 --> 02:22:59,950
This one was this a fish

2018
02:23:02,290 --> 02:23:05,559
because it's an alternator or a write up. I don't recall

2019
02:23:08,429 --> 02:23:10,389
looking at it off stream. Oh Man.

2020
02:23:11,570 --> 02:23:12,950
Many duplicates.

2021
02:23:13,089 --> 02:23:14,669
So this one was titled

2022
02:23:17,839 --> 02:23:19,190
Getting Started.

2023
02:23:20,730 --> 02:23:22,580
So it was from medium. So it's just

2024
02:23:23,769 --> 02:23:24,290
some

2025
02:23:26,219 --> 02:23:28,730
quick follow of here's how you do the thing.

2026
02:23:29,509 --> 02:23:31,049
I'm gonna call that a response.

2027
02:23:34,219 --> 02:23:37,030
This one is the alternate. So like a H

2028
02:23:37,509 --> 02:23:39,589
I called it out here of merged mailing list

2029
02:23:39,599 --> 02:23:42,469
archive and a story from primary source posted later.

2030
02:23:43,790 --> 02:23:47,759
So this was, we had somebody's mailing list post and then

2031
02:23:48,139 --> 02:23:49,769
probably a few hours

2032
02:23:50,019 --> 02:23:51,379
or a few days later,

2033
02:23:51,580 --> 02:23:52,900
someone submitted the

2034
02:23:53,389 --> 02:23:54,660
actual announcement.

2035
02:24:05,709 --> 02:24:07,040
This one was a write up.

2036
02:24:14,070 --> 02:24:15,290
This was a write up,

2037
02:24:20,139 --> 02:24:23,000
uh less that they leaked it and more that's

2038
02:24:23,009 --> 02:24:25,320
just where somebody happened to hear of it.

2039
02:24:25,660 --> 02:24:26,360
So,

2040
02:24:27,419 --> 02:24:29,000
on the mailing list,

2041
02:24:30,240 --> 02:24:30,509
you know,

2042
02:24:30,519 --> 02:24:33,709
if someone was subscribed to the mailing list and they saw the announcement,

2043
02:24:33,719 --> 02:24:35,820
they might immediately submit that

2044
02:24:36,330 --> 02:24:37,219
where

2045
02:24:37,360 --> 02:24:41,879
we probably would do better with a like actual product announcement,

2046
02:24:42,280 --> 02:24:45,879
product, not necessarily a product but a version announcement, blog post

2047
02:24:46,429 --> 02:24:46,839
because,

2048
02:24:47,240 --> 02:24:47,459
you know,

2049
02:24:47,469 --> 02:24:50,599
sometimes the mailing list post is just a change log or is

2050
02:24:50,610 --> 02:24:54,879
otherwise written more for internal consumption and then like a blog post

2051
02:24:56,690 --> 02:24:58,730
is better to start a discussion from.

2052
02:25:01,519 --> 02:25:03,750
I don't remember what that one is. We'll have to look at it.

2053
02:25:08,259 --> 02:25:09,280
This one's a write up.

2054
02:25:15,120 --> 02:25:18,419
That was all right. No, this was a response.

2055
02:25:24,089 --> 02:25:25,889
This one was a

2056
02:25:27,030 --> 02:25:27,559
ready go.

2057
02:25:30,580 --> 02:25:31,750
That's a write up

2058
02:25:32,919 --> 02:25:34,969
and that's all the way around. OK.

2059
02:25:39,660 --> 02:25:42,559
So anything. Oh, press release.

2060
02:25:46,849 --> 02:25:48,509
So those are gonna be alternates.

2061
02:25:51,440 --> 02:25:52,900
Only seven,

2062
02:25:53,290 --> 02:25:54,330
not too bad.

2063
02:26:00,219 --> 02:26:01,160
And then

2064
02:26:03,549 --> 02:26:05,209
anybody else popping out.

2065
02:26:18,099 --> 02:26:19,160
This one's a

2066
02:26:20,179 --> 02:26:21,040
uh right up

2067
02:26:22,290 --> 02:26:23,580
and it's about lobsters

2068
02:26:25,129 --> 02:26:30,230
every once in a while. So like part of being a moderator is being the no fun police.

2069
02:26:31,940 --> 02:26:33,129
But I figure like

2070
02:26:33,559 --> 02:26:34,719
once a year

2071
02:26:35,559 --> 02:26:36,459
this kind of like

2072
02:26:41,950 --> 02:26:45,049
it's the lobster emoji, which is not super

2073
02:26:46,549 --> 02:26:47,519
topical,

2074
02:26:47,709 --> 02:26:49,599
especially because it was just, um,

2075
02:26:50,000 --> 02:26:54,219
some guy fighting over being the gold sponsor, Lobsters, our site

2076
02:26:54,580 --> 02:26:56,490
was the silver sponsor for that emoji.

2077
02:26:57,290 --> 02:26:58,410
Uh, in any case.

2078
02:27:01,500 --> 02:27:02,790
Oh, I see.

2079
02:27:04,509 --> 02:27:08,490
Uh Je, and you're suggesting that that's a pattern we're sipping through.

2080
02:27:10,030 --> 02:27:10,480
Come here.

2081
02:27:13,040 --> 02:27:14,299
Let's do that.

2082
02:27:14,929 --> 02:27:16,219
I'm gonna reuse that.

2083
02:27:21,750 --> 02:27:23,929
Ok. Looks like we got eight of those.

2084
02:27:25,820 --> 02:27:27,690
No, it's enough for me to go on. So,

2085
02:27:28,360 --> 02:27:33,059
so these are gonna be write ups because otherwise I would not have referred to

2086
02:27:34,099 --> 02:27:35,250
those as

2087
02:27:39,910 --> 02:27:41,089
the announcement.

2088
02:27:41,370 --> 02:27:43,169
All right. So there's those,

2089
02:27:48,959 --> 02:27:51,360
that one's right up. Hey, look, here's the uh

2090
02:27:51,820 --> 02:27:54,940
the day of the Microsoft acquisition and you can just kind of see

2091
02:27:55,179 --> 02:27:55,980
a bunch of them.

2092
02:28:00,490 --> 02:28:01,030
All right.

2093
02:28:09,490 --> 02:28:11,280
There is a bunch down here where

2094
02:28:11,599 --> 02:28:14,169
J CS did not write reasons for his merges.

2095
02:28:16,809 --> 02:28:19,299
Oh, and he liked calling them dub instead of dupe.

2096
02:28:22,969 --> 02:28:23,429
All right.

2097
02:28:31,830 --> 02:28:32,759
OK.

2098
02:28:33,150 --> 02:28:35,259
I think that's probably

2099
02:28:35,870 --> 02:28:36,660
enough

2100
02:28:36,950 --> 02:28:39,019
to get back into Libre office,

2101
02:28:39,980 --> 02:28:42,240
which is there a reload?

2102
02:28:43,000 --> 02:28:45,940
Cancel all changes? All right. So I'm gonna have to

2103
02:28:46,700 --> 02:28:48,259
shrink this back over.

2104
02:28:50,490 --> 02:28:51,190
Can I just

2105
02:28:52,120 --> 02:28:54,370
format all of these as links right now?

2106
02:28:56,730 --> 02:28:56,980
Oh,

2107
02:28:57,419 --> 02:28:58,049
are you

2108
02:28:59,370 --> 02:29:00,709
format

2109
02:29:03,889 --> 02:29:05,200
anchor? No

2110
02:29:07,519 --> 02:29:08,129
data?

2111
02:29:10,759 --> 02:29:13,110
Yeah, I guess I'll just copy and paste instead of click on them.

2112
02:29:13,120 --> 02:29:15,530
Uh They'd head over to my personal browser anyway. So

2113
02:29:16,349 --> 02:29:17,290
I was gonna have to.

2114
02:29:19,000 --> 02:29:20,549
OK. So

2115
02:29:21,000 --> 02:29:22,190
could shrink that in.

2116
02:29:23,519 --> 02:29:25,940
And this column is

2117
02:29:27,950 --> 02:29:28,809
category

2118
02:29:35,860 --> 02:29:39,019
And if we take all this

2119
02:29:41,360 --> 02:29:42,099
and

2120
02:29:44,650 --> 02:29:45,379
can I just

2121
02:29:47,769 --> 02:29:49,450
make a, yeah, here we go.

2122
02:29:50,080 --> 02:29:51,120
So, here

2123
02:29:51,280 --> 02:29:53,480
if we sort ascending,

2124
02:29:56,530 --> 02:29:58,519
here's everybody that's marked.

2125
02:30:03,160 --> 02:30:07,150
So that was roughly half of them categorized.

2126
02:30:08,549 --> 02:30:09,330
That's not bad

2127
02:30:10,370 --> 02:30:11,780
for the amount of time it took.

2128
02:30:17,879 --> 02:30:19,769
Oh, mosquito. Excuse me.

2129
02:30:21,219 --> 02:30:24,009
The noise compressor should have kept that from being too bad. But,

2130
02:30:24,190 --> 02:30:24,440
oh

2131
02:30:24,610 --> 02:30:27,389
yeah, there's a place where I slipped on to two lines.

2132
02:30:30,769 --> 02:30:32,030
This one was a duke

2133
02:30:33,429 --> 02:30:34,889
and then I have to delete the rows.

2134
02:30:40,240 --> 02:30:41,849
This one also

2135
02:30:47,200 --> 02:30:48,230
probably just

2136
02:30:51,610 --> 02:30:54,849
get these pretty easy by using the control down.

2137
02:30:58,780 --> 02:30:59,110
Yep.

2138
02:31:05,870 --> 02:31:07,660
369 also.

2139
02:31:09,269 --> 02:31:10,730
Did I get it in the time?

2140
02:31:11,669 --> 02:31:12,889
Oh, yep, you got

2141
02:31:13,009 --> 02:31:13,030
it.

2142
02:31:14,080 --> 02:31:15,160
I did not get it.

2143
02:31:17,139 --> 02:31:17,679
Oh,

2144
02:31:18,070 --> 02:31:19,639
not in sir. Rose. Delete.

2145
02:31:23,929 --> 02:31:25,230
I can see this one.

2146
02:31:27,059 --> 02:31:29,299
I wonder if these came in before I uh

2147
02:31:29,599 --> 02:31:32,519
I shift the lead to uh I control the lead.

2148
02:31:33,530 --> 02:31:35,709
I could use a shortcut for deleting the row

2149
02:31:46,780 --> 02:31:47,910
but there isn't one.

2150
02:31:48,500 --> 02:31:50,759
So I will just have to use the mouse

2151
02:31:54,280 --> 02:31:55,740
back in the eighties.

2152
02:31:57,410 --> 02:31:59,049
Oh, man, I thought I would only

2153
02:31:59,250 --> 02:32:01,759
goof these on two or three. This is like a

2154
02:32:02,070 --> 02:32:02,700
bunch.

2155
02:32:13,480 --> 02:32:14,580
Here's the four

2156
02:32:16,190 --> 02:32:16,639
sp

2157
02:32:22,349 --> 02:32:23,250
response.

2158
02:32:25,610 --> 02:32:27,879
Guess I was moving pretty fast on those responses.

2159
02:32:36,400 --> 02:32:37,570
All right. That's all of them.

2160
02:32:38,589 --> 02:32:39,799
This one is a dupe.

2161
02:32:43,320 --> 02:32:44,620
This one is a write up.

2162
02:32:46,719 --> 02:32:47,940
This is an alternative.

2163
02:32:50,580 --> 02:32:51,599
This is a write up

2164
02:32:57,559 --> 02:33:00,259
more definitive length. This is probably a write up

2165
02:33:02,610 --> 02:33:04,089
as are these

2166
02:33:07,610 --> 02:33:08,950
do remerge.

2167
02:33:09,910 --> 02:33:12,290
Yeah. The uh the U I on merging is

2168
02:33:12,580 --> 02:33:15,009
not quite as helpful as you might want. And so

2169
02:33:15,530 --> 02:33:16,129
it is,

2170
02:33:16,400 --> 02:33:20,610
you basically as a moderator just have to open the tabs and uh

2171
02:33:22,360 --> 02:33:25,059
copy out of the URL and paste the story ID

2172
02:33:25,809 --> 02:33:28,360
as opposed to the form, having

2173
02:33:28,669 --> 02:33:30,349
any kind of feature in there to help.

2174
02:33:32,570 --> 02:33:34,150
Huh? Old news.

2175
02:33:35,400 --> 02:33:39,750
And I think that's the, the one that's down a little ways. So I'm curious if

2176
02:33:41,030 --> 02:33:44,660
that's a merged that happened way more than a week later.

2177
02:33:45,269 --> 02:33:48,679
So the first one was 2, 16,

2178
02:33:49,669 --> 02:33:52,379
second one was 224. So only six days.

2179
02:33:52,490 --> 02:33:52,929
All right.

2180
02:33:53,099 --> 02:33:56,049
The way it said that I thought it was gonna be a link down to uh

2181
02:33:56,530 --> 02:34:00,500
one of these down here. But I guess get host by name and get adder info

2182
02:34:02,459 --> 02:34:03,190
or not. It

2183
02:34:06,589 --> 02:34:07,809
got some blanks.

2184
02:34:14,610 --> 02:34:15,820
These are write ups.

2185
02:34:25,320 --> 02:34:25,950
That's stupid.

2186
02:34:27,339 --> 02:34:28,360
It's all right up.

2187
02:34:30,320 --> 02:34:31,259
That's right up

2188
02:34:33,690 --> 02:34:35,309
actually. No, that's a response.

2189
02:34:56,120 --> 02:34:56,980
All right.

2190
02:35:05,280 --> 02:35:06,929
Oh, these are uh

2191
02:35:08,690 --> 02:35:09,509
write ups.

2192
02:35:09,639 --> 02:35:12,419
Very topical advent of code. Oops,

2193
02:35:13,120 --> 02:35:14,379
what did I just do come here?

2194
02:35:18,790 --> 02:35:21,809
You can do it with control minus, but you still need to confirm.

2195
02:35:21,820 --> 02:35:23,150
Let's see what that looks like.

2196
02:35:25,870 --> 02:35:27,730
Oh, yeah. Then I would still need to.

2197
02:35:29,030 --> 02:35:32,089
So the uh the pop up appears off stream because uh

2198
02:35:32,099 --> 02:35:37,110
new windows on my desktop automatically appear off of the uh

2199
02:35:37,889 --> 02:35:39,870
area of the desktop for streaming

2200
02:35:41,009 --> 02:35:43,620
just to minimize how much I'm flashing stuff up.

2201
02:35:52,709 --> 02:35:53,469
These are write

2202
02:35:53,620 --> 02:35:53,959
ups.

2203
02:36:10,009 --> 02:36:10,690
Mhm

2204
02:36:10,870 --> 02:36:11,309
Yeah.

2205
02:36:12,089 --> 02:36:15,519
Yeah. So the radio appeared off stream and I didn't just drag it in.

2206
02:36:22,330 --> 02:36:22,349
Oh,

2207
02:36:22,540 --> 02:36:24,860
here we go. So I was looking for one of these.

2208
02:36:28,030 --> 02:36:31,639
Please don't submit stories as a super reply to other stories.

2209
02:36:31,650 --> 02:36:32,969
Just link them in a comment.

2210
02:36:34,879 --> 02:36:35,530
So

2211
02:36:37,549 --> 02:36:38,759
let me pull this one up

2212
02:36:39,000 --> 02:36:41,929
because it's not gonna be too spicy I don't think

2213
02:36:43,160 --> 02:36:44,799
which is convenient cause it,

2214
02:36:45,830 --> 02:36:46,250
you know,

2215
02:36:47,370 --> 02:36:48,030
so

2216
02:36:49,860 --> 02:36:51,650
someone submitted this article

2217
02:36:52,700 --> 02:36:53,589
that was,

2218
02:36:54,019 --> 02:36:56,870
yeah, let's just throw the link in the chat if you're curious

2219
02:36:58,870 --> 02:37:01,580
increase test fidelity by avoiding mocks.

2220
02:37:02,860 --> 02:37:03,759
And then

2221
02:37:05,570 --> 02:37:08,719
how, how much later couple hours 31,

2222
02:37:09,290 --> 02:37:10,269
2051

2223
02:37:11,219 --> 02:37:12,459
32.

2224
02:37:13,000 --> 02:37:13,990
OK. So

2225
02:37:14,129 --> 02:37:15,200
five hours later,

2226
02:37:18,690 --> 02:37:20,150
six hours what a sad

2227
02:37:23,360 --> 02:37:24,620
about six hours later

2228
02:37:26,919 --> 02:37:26,929
a

2229
02:37:27,059 --> 02:37:29,679
thing that people sometimes do

2230
02:37:31,169 --> 02:37:32,219
infrequently,

2231
02:37:33,929 --> 02:37:34,790
but it happens

2232
02:37:35,750 --> 02:37:36,549
is

2233
02:37:38,019 --> 02:37:39,639
they see an article

2234
02:37:40,290 --> 02:37:43,160
and either they disagree with it or

2235
02:37:44,700 --> 02:37:47,019
they feel like it is

2236
02:37:48,209 --> 02:37:50,610
a narrow window on a topic.

2237
02:37:53,339 --> 02:37:55,200
And in response

2238
02:37:56,169 --> 02:38:00,030
they say, you know what I saw an excellent post about this,

2239
02:38:00,750 --> 02:38:03,830
I will submit the excellent post and in this case,

2240
02:38:04,129 --> 02:38:06,559
the excellent post was from

2241
02:38:08,230 --> 02:38:09,330
20 years ago.

2242
02:38:11,330 --> 02:38:11,790
Yeah.

2243
02:38:12,709 --> 02:38:14,009
Can remember when this came out?

2244
02:38:16,370 --> 02:38:16,379
Oh,

2245
02:38:16,910 --> 02:38:17,589
it's gone.

2246
02:38:19,759 --> 02:38:21,299
I guess I'm dating myself there

2247
02:38:22,620 --> 02:38:23,200
and

2248
02:38:25,339 --> 02:38:28,320
very often I don't know if it's the case here,

2249
02:38:28,379 --> 02:38:31,990
but often the person who is submitting a story.

2250
02:38:32,400 --> 02:38:33,320
Yeah, so

2251
02:38:34,139 --> 02:38:36,370
you can see it doesn't have the merged I

2252
02:38:36,959 --> 02:38:38,000
URL here.

2253
02:38:38,509 --> 02:38:39,679
So non

2254
02:38:39,839 --> 02:38:40,440
crab,

2255
02:38:40,750 --> 02:38:45,559
there's actually a really, really lucky example because it's very clear

2256
02:38:46,080 --> 02:38:49,290
from the fact that non crab left a comment on the

2257
02:38:49,669 --> 02:38:50,940
target story

2258
02:38:51,570 --> 02:38:54,559
that they are replying to the story. And they said

2259
02:38:55,639 --> 02:38:57,360
this paper makes this point.

2260
02:38:58,129 --> 02:38:58,790
So

2261
02:39:06,040 --> 02:39:08,299
I read them not as

2262
02:39:10,049 --> 02:39:12,750
rebutting something they disagree with as expanding

2263
02:39:12,759 --> 02:39:14,469
on something that they feel was limited.

2264
02:39:15,169 --> 02:39:17,110
Yeah, mock world is not object is such

2265
02:39:17,219 --> 02:39:17,309
a, a

2266
02:39:17,620 --> 02:39:19,360
classic story. I actually,

2267
02:39:20,139 --> 02:39:21,740
I now would say,

2268
02:39:22,360 --> 02:39:22,379
yeah,

2269
02:39:22,530 --> 02:39:25,879
we're getting distracted into what it's actually about but yes, good paper.

2270
02:39:30,669 --> 02:39:31,440
So

2271
02:39:33,349 --> 02:39:34,250
not to put,

2272
02:39:37,469 --> 02:39:40,650
I am speaking more for the general case than the specific.

2273
02:39:41,139 --> 02:39:43,570
Although it's kind of clear what happened here is

2274
02:39:46,559 --> 02:39:47,940
someone felt that

2275
02:39:48,750 --> 02:39:49,580
the

2276
02:39:50,009 --> 02:39:51,129
rebuttal

2277
02:39:51,570 --> 02:39:54,950
or the alternate explanation on the same topic

2278
02:39:55,389 --> 02:40:01,250
was so much better that they wanted to have a thread that was just about

2279
02:40:01,919 --> 02:40:02,769
their link.

2280
02:40:03,480 --> 02:40:04,139
And

2281
02:40:08,940 --> 02:40:13,480
it's sort of a way to use a story as a super comment.

2282
02:40:13,490 --> 02:40:17,349
And I think I've called it a super reply or a super comment.

2283
02:40:18,070 --> 02:40:20,950
And this is not a great term because

2284
02:40:21,469 --> 02:40:23,650
it's clear to me what I mean,

2285
02:40:23,830 --> 02:40:27,089
but it is not automatically clear to people who see it in the mod log

2286
02:40:27,870 --> 02:40:28,709
because

2287
02:40:29,730 --> 02:40:33,169
people ask about it in the chat room or

2288
02:40:33,690 --> 02:40:38,110
I get a puzzle DM about it of why did you merge my story? And it's

2289
02:40:39,299 --> 02:40:41,759
because we are trying to keep the discussion together.

2290
02:40:41,860 --> 02:40:45,509
And if we split the discussion up into multiple posts,

2291
02:40:45,519 --> 02:40:47,719
we end up rehashing a lot of the same stuff.

2292
02:40:48,490 --> 02:40:49,549
And in this case,

2293
02:40:51,139 --> 02:40:55,709
like these replies to the paper would not be visible on the paper

2294
02:40:56,809 --> 02:41:01,150
story if it were an independent link. So this is strongly

2295
02:41:01,530 --> 02:41:06,219
one of the values, one of the most significant values for story merging

2296
02:41:06,900 --> 02:41:09,139
and maybe also one of the more contentious

2297
02:41:09,320 --> 02:41:11,589
because when people do this,

2298
02:41:13,669 --> 02:41:14,719
they are often,

2299
02:41:14,820 --> 02:41:18,160
you know, I don't wanna cast aspersions because this is such a a

2300
02:41:18,320 --> 02:41:22,320
case by case basis. And I can't always tell what somebody's goal is.

2301
02:41:25,269 --> 02:41:30,650
But it's often that they feel that the alternate link that they are submitting

2302
02:41:32,450 --> 02:41:37,309
is so much superior that it should have its own discussion.

2303
02:41:37,830 --> 02:41:39,269
That's just about it.

2304
02:41:40,450 --> 02:41:42,910
And sometimes definitely not this case

2305
02:41:43,339 --> 02:41:45,070
because this one's not even an argument.

2306
02:41:46,570 --> 02:41:47,709
Sometimes

2307
02:41:48,070 --> 02:41:48,950
that is

2308
02:41:49,320 --> 02:41:51,919
with hot takes especially it's like,

2309
02:41:52,089 --> 02:41:53,150
well, I want

2310
02:41:53,860 --> 02:41:55,200
a story thread

2311
02:41:55,669 --> 02:41:58,040
that's just about how everyone agrees with me

2312
02:41:58,490 --> 02:42:00,330
and we're gonna have a whole threaded discussion

2313
02:42:00,339 --> 02:42:02,849
that's gonna start from my favorite blog posts.

2314
02:42:02,860 --> 02:42:05,120
Hot take on these events.

2315
02:42:07,019 --> 02:42:11,080
And then I will get what I want, which is a thread full of people agreeing with me,

2316
02:42:11,589 --> 02:42:12,730
less than a

2317
02:42:13,370 --> 02:42:16,179
thread full of people discussing the topic.

2318
02:42:24,049 --> 02:42:27,469
So this is one of those practices that needs to get explained.

2319
02:42:28,790 --> 02:42:33,169
Don't use stories as a super reply

2320
02:42:34,820 --> 02:42:36,419
link in comments

2321
02:42:40,360 --> 02:42:46,019
and I don't know how to say it better than to call it a super reply or a super comment.

2322
02:42:51,679 --> 02:42:55,980
But I hope the the general outline of the practice is pretty clear there.

2323
02:42:56,940 --> 02:42:57,690
So let's say half.

2324
02:42:57,879 --> 02:42:58,790
And I said super

2325
02:43:03,459 --> 02:43:04,610
oh this guy doesn't

2326
02:43:05,320 --> 02:43:07,320
library office isn't gonna give me a quick

2327
02:43:08,370 --> 02:43:08,889
version of

2328
02:43:09,179 --> 02:43:10,980
let me save the TSV.

2329
02:43:12,009 --> 02:43:12,870
And then

2330
02:43:14,820 --> 02:43:15,700
come on, let's go.

2331
02:43:21,849 --> 02:43:24,230
So there's one for supercomputer.

2332
02:43:24,629 --> 02:43:25,940
Uh So there's the

2333
02:43:26,110 --> 02:43:26,349
items.

2334
02:43:26,740 --> 02:43:28,570
So super response

2335
02:43:32,639 --> 02:43:36,660
looks like we got four of those and super comment

2336
02:43:37,719 --> 02:43:38,780
one of those.

2337
02:43:39,860 --> 02:43:40,480
So

2338
02:43:40,679 --> 02:43:43,530
it's not a thing I say very often.

2339
02:43:46,839 --> 02:43:47,500
It's

2340
02:43:48,530 --> 02:43:51,269
I might also have said super reply, mightn't I

2341
02:43:54,269 --> 02:43:55,910
Yeah. So one of those two

2342
02:43:57,629 --> 02:43:59,610
super reply, super comment.

2343
02:44:00,299 --> 02:44:02,160
Oh super response.

2344
02:44:03,910 --> 02:44:04,759
All right. So we got a

2345
02:44:05,150 --> 02:44:06,370
three variance.

2346
02:44:09,519 --> 02:44:10,799
So this one is

2347
02:44:16,839 --> 02:44:18,169
let's put it in the scratch

2348
02:44:20,940 --> 02:44:24,040
which I guess this all should just be in the scratch because

2349
02:44:25,009 --> 02:44:26,919
we're getting towards time

2350
02:44:35,230 --> 02:44:39,009
and if I write slow, it's definitely not getting written today.

2351
02:44:46,849 --> 02:44:47,309
Great

2352
02:44:49,809 --> 02:44:51,950
super reply. Super comment.

2353
02:44:57,000 --> 02:44:57,500
So

2354
02:44:58,929 --> 02:45:03,469
it's not just that I only do this on average one time a year cause if there's like

2355
02:45:04,070 --> 02:45:06,019
seven of these, that's one time a year.

2356
02:45:11,099 --> 02:45:13,459
Yeah, it's not super clear to people.

2357
02:45:22,440 --> 02:45:25,040
And I think actually if I search for comment,

2358
02:45:25,049 --> 02:45:27,299
I might have found alternate ways to say it.

2359
02:45:28,990 --> 02:45:31,929
Yeah, please don't submit stories to be a super response.

2360
02:45:35,269 --> 02:45:36,519
Super comment

2361
02:45:38,360 --> 02:45:39,259
unrelated.

2362
02:45:40,320 --> 02:45:42,110
No, I'm searching for come here

2363
02:45:48,500 --> 02:45:49,259
ratio.

2364
02:45:49,610 --> 02:45:50,519
Oh yeah,

2365
02:45:51,559 --> 02:45:52,629
yeah, that's um

2366
02:45:53,650 --> 02:45:56,150
the Twitter or blue sky version of it.

2367
02:45:56,429 --> 02:45:57,030
Yes.

2368
02:45:59,469 --> 02:46:01,820
Yeah. Oh I did find an alternate way to say it.

2369
02:46:02,959 --> 02:46:03,919
I knew there was something.

2370
02:46:03,929 --> 02:46:07,620
Please don't use stories to reply to stories, just post a comment.

2371
02:46:08,410 --> 02:46:09,690
Yeah. And

2372
02:46:10,070 --> 02:46:15,429
that's why I was trying to be careful about the, the casting Aspersions part was,

2373
02:46:16,919 --> 02:46:17,610
it's

2374
02:46:21,830 --> 02:46:23,669
sometimes it's just,

2375
02:46:23,809 --> 02:46:25,330
I'm really excited

2376
02:46:25,480 --> 02:46:27,740
and I have a great link on this topic

2377
02:46:28,049 --> 02:46:32,370
and then sometimes it's, I want a thread where everyone agrees with me

2378
02:46:33,330 --> 02:46:34,870
and I wanna kind of show you up

2379
02:46:36,309 --> 02:46:37,040
and I

2380
02:46:40,120 --> 02:46:41,980
move the disagrees over there.

2381
02:46:43,009 --> 02:46:43,549
Yeah,

2382
02:46:43,990 --> 02:46:47,190
it could be. That is certainly a more charitable explanation.

2383
02:46:47,339 --> 02:46:48,410
I, I like that.

2384
02:46:48,969 --> 02:46:50,790
I would hope it is more often that

2385
02:46:52,740 --> 02:46:56,709
on the other hand, our community is small enough, it can't really

2386
02:46:56,839 --> 02:46:59,280
brigade itself in the way that

2387
02:47:01,070 --> 02:47:04,620
that could be an issue on Reddit or could be on hacker news

2388
02:47:05,459 --> 02:47:06,330
cause they are

2389
02:47:06,809 --> 02:47:08,360
enormously larger than us.

2390
02:47:09,530 --> 02:47:10,519
And when I say Reddit,

2391
02:47:10,530 --> 02:47:14,059
I'm really referring to like a specific programming subreddit.

2392
02:47:16,019 --> 02:47:16,410
Yeah,

2393
02:47:16,990 --> 02:47:20,240
that's also part of why so on that topic of

2394
02:47:20,690 --> 02:47:23,950
disagrees. That's also part of why

2395
02:47:24,910 --> 02:47:28,860
I characterized lobsters in that meta comment maybe a

2396
02:47:29,500 --> 02:47:33,370
year and a half ago as it's like a big backyard barbecue.

2397
02:47:34,290 --> 02:47:38,839
I think lobsters is at its best when it's a bunch of people who are

2398
02:47:39,200 --> 02:47:41,450
sharing discussion around a topic

2399
02:47:41,860 --> 02:47:45,299
rather than people who are trying to win a fight about a topic.

2400
02:47:47,150 --> 02:47:47,959
There's

2401
02:47:49,870 --> 02:47:51,809
very rarely a

2402
02:47:52,379 --> 02:47:57,889
lot of progress in the public understanding of a topic that comes out of fights.

2403
02:47:58,259 --> 02:47:59,120
It, it

2404
02:47:59,259 --> 02:48:00,509
and I'm speaking here

2405
02:48:00,809 --> 02:48:03,330
just of stuff on our site.

2406
02:48:04,629 --> 02:48:05,209
It's

2407
02:48:10,200 --> 02:48:13,530
when people are having really hard disagreements.

2408
02:48:13,540 --> 02:48:15,589
Even if they don't get into flame wars,

2409
02:48:16,320 --> 02:48:18,179
they don't tend to be able to,

2410
02:48:19,250 --> 02:48:20,549
when you focus on

2411
02:48:21,349 --> 02:48:22,179
winning,

2412
02:48:22,639 --> 02:48:24,900
you almost can't learn.

2413
02:48:25,580 --> 02:48:26,580
I think that's just,

2414
02:48:30,099 --> 02:48:30,549
yeah,

2415
02:48:31,580 --> 02:48:31,900
s

2416
02:48:32,169 --> 02:48:36,120
oh, there's a good reference. You should please drop a link for that one

2417
02:48:37,089 --> 02:48:39,910
because some of these are, are kind of deep cut memes

2418
02:48:40,290 --> 02:48:43,150
and I guess it's becoming clear on these streams that I'm uh

2419
02:48:43,459 --> 02:48:45,919
extremely online that I'm getting most of these memes

2420
02:48:50,320 --> 02:48:52,500
log for J was not the one that got a lot of

2421
02:48:52,709 --> 02:48:53,820
merges I think.

2422
02:48:55,150 --> 02:48:56,530
And I wanna say there was like

2423
02:48:57,639 --> 02:49:00,679
three weeks of stories about it

2424
02:49:02,349 --> 02:49:03,929
where there were three threads.

2425
02:49:06,200 --> 02:49:08,410
Yeah, it was PB F comics.

2426
02:49:09,000 --> 02:49:09,849
That's right.

2427
02:49:15,639 --> 02:49:16,139
So

2428
02:49:16,259 --> 02:49:17,099
the two guys

2429
02:49:18,070 --> 02:49:18,570
people,

2430
02:49:28,040 --> 02:49:28,360
yeah,

2431
02:49:30,860 --> 02:49:32,179
it's just human nature

2432
02:49:32,650 --> 02:49:34,410
that if things are different

2433
02:49:34,700 --> 02:49:37,419
people kind of wanna find which one is better

2434
02:49:42,629 --> 02:49:45,490
and obviously the one that I like more is better, right?

2435
02:50:03,209 --> 02:50:04,629
This once in A I turn it,

2436
02:50:24,370 --> 02:50:25,679
this one's right out.

2437
02:50:29,969 --> 02:50:31,309
Stalin's got cancer.

2438
02:50:33,389 --> 02:50:34,330
I don't think I knew that.

2439
02:50:34,690 --> 02:50:36,410
I mean, this is me merging it but

2440
02:50:37,629 --> 02:50:38,480
didn't register.

2441
02:50:45,030 --> 02:50:45,719
All right.

2442
02:50:54,129 --> 02:50:55,469
So I'm gonna um

2443
02:50:56,330 --> 02:51:01,490
save this and since I just labeled a few more things, let's resort it.

2444
02:51:05,150 --> 02:51:05,919
Oh Look at that

2445
02:51:08,610 --> 02:51:08,959
type

2446
02:51:09,230 --> 02:51:09,349
Bos

2447
02:51:15,059 --> 02:51:17,089
386 out of

2448
02:51:18,169 --> 02:51:20,669
745. So that's

2449
02:51:21,150 --> 02:51:22,870
pretty close to half.

2450
02:51:23,099 --> 02:51:23,469
Yeah.

2451
02:51:30,040 --> 02:51:31,129
Is there a way to get,

2452
02:51:33,700 --> 02:51:35,719
I guess I could just say come here.

2453
02:51:36,910 --> 02:51:41,219
So if I filter this to how many of them are

2454
02:51:41,639 --> 02:51:42,669
alternates

2455
02:51:49,139 --> 02:51:50,120
and then

2456
02:51:50,719 --> 02:51:51,129
like,

2457
02:51:51,419 --> 02:51:54,320
I'm just trying to get some rough ideas of statistics.

2458
02:51:56,269 --> 02:51:58,009
So, so far that's

2459
02:51:58,440 --> 02:51:59,250
28.

2460
02:52:01,019 --> 02:52:02,809
And then if I replace

2461
02:52:03,639 --> 02:52:04,660
with Dupes,

2462
02:52:08,139 --> 02:52:08,830
oh, yeah.

2463
02:52:09,959 --> 02:52:11,459
Looks like there was one where I

2464
02:52:11,599 --> 02:52:12,740
had two things.

2465
02:52:15,059 --> 02:52:15,599
So

2466
02:52:17,650 --> 02:52:19,950
Dupes, there are 64

2467
02:52:27,089 --> 02:52:28,169
let's say,

2468
02:52:30,580 --> 02:52:31,790
let's say responses.

2469
02:52:34,209 --> 02:52:37,110
So responses is 100 and 98.

2470
02:52:38,179 --> 02:52:40,559
If there's 200 out of 350

2471
02:52:40,969 --> 02:52:42,190
that's the bulk of it.

2472
02:52:45,799 --> 02:52:48,059
And then write ups are

2473
02:52:49,980 --> 02:52:51,969
the other 100. OK. So

2474
02:52:52,599 --> 02:52:54,280
responses are most popular

2475
02:52:54,450 --> 02:52:55,559
and then write ups

2476
02:52:56,660 --> 02:52:57,480
and then

2477
02:52:58,660 --> 02:53:00,400
dupes and then alternates.

2478
02:53:04,389 --> 02:53:08,009
I kind of wanted to eyeball that because I'm wondering,

2479
02:53:10,290 --> 02:53:12,790
are those numbers gonna change much

2480
02:53:13,129 --> 02:53:16,500
if I actually go through the other half of this list

2481
02:53:28,320 --> 02:53:31,349
uh looks like there's one more category of updates.

2482
02:53:33,580 --> 02:53:34,280
So

2483
02:53:37,490 --> 02:53:38,790
like these,

2484
02:53:39,070 --> 02:53:41,240
this one like these two are,

2485
02:53:41,700 --> 02:53:45,830
but this one is as well where someone submitted a whole bunch of

2486
02:53:46,769 --> 02:53:47,320
like a,

2487
02:53:47,450 --> 02:53:47,459
a

2488
02:53:47,830 --> 02:53:51,469
series of blog posts. Yeah, I search for series.

2489
02:54:02,440 --> 02:54:03,009
Yeah.

2490
02:54:08,290 --> 02:54:10,509
Oh Yeah. Or here is another one

2491
02:54:10,759 --> 02:54:14,030
that just happened to show up of merging update into earlier submission.

2492
02:54:15,959 --> 02:54:17,629
So sometimes that's

2493
02:54:19,519 --> 02:54:22,400
someone breaks up a blog post into

2494
02:54:23,009 --> 02:54:24,500
multiple posts,

2495
02:54:26,299 --> 02:54:26,790
you know,

2496
02:54:28,440 --> 02:54:33,339
f series Gear Selector. Part one, the idea and then part two, the breakthrough.

2497
02:54:33,349 --> 02:54:35,219
But they only come like two days apart.

2498
02:54:36,650 --> 02:54:38,230
The other one is

2499
02:54:39,150 --> 02:54:41,129
someone submits part one,

2500
02:54:41,320 --> 02:54:45,160
they get a bunch of responses whether on our side or somewhere else.

2501
02:54:46,099 --> 02:54:48,790
And then they write a part two like a day later.

2502
02:54:54,690 --> 02:54:55,589
That's a write up

2503
02:55:04,009 --> 02:55:06,440
any more serious nights. I got the ones,

2504
02:55:31,679 --> 02:55:31,820
uh,

2505
02:55:32,349 --> 02:55:33,660
I guess that's a reason

2506
02:55:38,709 --> 02:55:40,030
because this one is

2507
02:55:43,160 --> 02:55:43,410
so

2508
02:55:45,309 --> 02:55:48,150
we're coming up on the end here of Lobster's office

2509
02:55:48,160 --> 02:55:50,330
hours because I only wanna run for about three weeks.

2510
02:55:50,339 --> 02:55:52,429
And I realize if I start

2511
02:55:52,750 --> 02:55:54,030
writing this up,

2512
02:55:55,259 --> 02:55:57,540
I'm not gonna get anywhere meaningful on stream.

2513
02:55:57,549 --> 02:55:59,599
So I'm gonna punt that part to the next stream.

2514
02:55:59,610 --> 02:56:02,320
But the two things I thought were worth writing

2515
02:56:02,330 --> 02:56:04,599
a little more about and saying a little more

2516
02:56:04,910 --> 02:56:06,400
about have come up.

2517
02:56:07,849 --> 02:56:09,759
The two things are

2518
02:56:16,620 --> 02:56:18,389
a couple of things are tied together,

2519
02:56:24,929 --> 02:56:28,519
clarity in which story comment is replying to

2520
02:56:34,110 --> 02:56:35,429
super replies

2521
02:56:38,440 --> 02:56:41,690
and then kind of the inverse of super replies is

2522
02:56:42,519 --> 02:56:45,400
highlighting best links in a story.

2523
02:56:48,629 --> 02:56:51,089
And so what that becomes is

2524
02:56:52,969 --> 02:56:54,400
what if a comment

2525
02:56:56,160 --> 02:56:59,450
could be promoted to a story?

2526
02:57:01,549 --> 02:57:04,049
So we have a story submitted like

2527
02:57:05,459 --> 02:57:07,929
uh I'm reading off of the spreadsheet.

2528
02:57:08,080 --> 02:57:08,799
Um

2529
02:57:11,139 --> 02:57:13,480
uh Let's just use that that testing title.

2530
02:57:13,790 --> 02:57:14,400
So

2531
02:57:14,519 --> 02:57:16,900
actually, this is, this really is a great example.

2532
02:57:16,910 --> 02:57:20,120
The the one about increased test fidelity by avoiding mocks

2533
02:57:22,009 --> 02:57:23,650
and then non crab

2534
02:57:24,219 --> 02:57:26,950
submitted a comment that was largely saying,

2535
02:57:27,620 --> 02:57:28,889
hey, this paper was great.

2536
02:57:29,490 --> 02:57:30,809
Let's talk about that too.

2537
02:57:33,139 --> 02:57:35,660
This week also seems common. Yeah, that's me.

2538
02:57:37,860 --> 02:57:40,900
Uh That's the other thing that I there is to talk about.

2539
02:57:41,349 --> 02:57:42,809
I'll come back to that in just a sec.

2540
02:57:44,530 --> 02:57:45,269
So

2541
02:57:51,290 --> 02:57:51,830
if

2542
02:57:52,030 --> 02:57:52,580
non

2543
02:57:52,809 --> 02:57:55,870
crab or users could have said you know,

2544
02:57:56,849 --> 02:57:58,080
this comment

2545
02:57:58,330 --> 02:57:59,679
include a link

2546
02:58:00,440 --> 02:58:02,860
to something that we haven't seen before.

2547
02:58:03,269 --> 02:58:04,459
You know, that's not,

2548
02:58:05,120 --> 02:58:07,879
not, haven't seen before. Actually, never mind that part.

2549
02:58:08,080 --> 02:58:10,179
If it includes a link,

2550
02:58:12,309 --> 02:58:14,549
what if there was a way for the author,

2551
02:58:14,669 --> 02:58:15,750
comment, author

2552
02:58:16,219 --> 02:58:18,139
or for readers to say,

2553
02:58:18,530 --> 02:58:21,599
I think this should be promoted to a story.

2554
02:58:23,799 --> 02:58:26,049
And part of the reason I think that is,

2555
02:58:27,900 --> 02:58:29,769
this display is real confusing

2556
02:58:30,509 --> 02:58:31,040
and

2557
02:58:32,059 --> 02:58:34,309
it only gets more confusing

2558
02:58:35,089 --> 02:58:39,929
when there's a whole bunch of stories merged in and I guess I closed the ones, but

2559
02:58:40,950 --> 02:58:44,650
when there's like four or five, it's especially strange that

2560
02:58:46,509 --> 02:58:48,440
the links for this one

2561
02:58:48,620 --> 02:58:51,669
are after all the others, right? So if we go to,

2562
02:58:54,419 --> 02:58:56,150
you know, the most extreme example,

2563
02:58:57,530 --> 02:59:00,830
this top link is Microsoft's press release

2564
02:59:01,830 --> 02:59:04,650
and then this is the metadata for that one

2565
02:59:08,099 --> 02:59:13,160
and the metadata for these others is just kind of in line which is weird.

2566
02:59:16,019 --> 02:59:16,839
And then

2567
02:59:18,179 --> 02:59:20,830
stories from the merged links

2568
02:59:23,379 --> 02:59:25,820
have this tag that people miss.

2569
02:59:27,599 --> 02:59:28,500
And so

2570
02:59:28,700 --> 02:59:30,259
I guess what I'm saying is

2571
02:59:32,299 --> 02:59:32,950
bye,

2572
02:59:35,450 --> 02:59:36,280
commenter

2573
02:59:36,469 --> 02:59:36,959
reader,

2574
02:59:38,480 --> 02:59:39,540
Mad or readers.

2575
02:59:41,190 --> 02:59:42,299
And then also

2576
02:59:43,759 --> 02:59:44,860
rather than

2577
02:59:46,820 --> 02:59:48,839
so hang on, I'll say two things

2578
02:59:49,599 --> 02:59:51,580
clean up the metadata

2579
02:59:52,080 --> 02:59:55,860
on links at the top of the page. Confusing display

2580
02:59:56,910 --> 02:59:57,650
first

2581
02:59:58,519 --> 02:59:59,570
items.

0
03:00:00,829 --> 03:00:02,910
Meta appears last

1
03:00:03,299 --> 03:00:03,869
low

2
03:00:04,519 --> 03:00:06,650
merged stories, right?

3
03:00:08,109 --> 03:00:09,439
But then also

4
03:00:11,649 --> 03:00:14,909
in comments, what if we repeated

5
03:00:15,350 --> 03:00:16,068
each

6
03:00:17,329 --> 03:00:18,469
stories

7
03:00:19,780 --> 03:00:22,239
title and thread title

8
03:00:25,600 --> 03:00:27,579
as a section header

9
03:00:27,690 --> 03:00:28,420
for

10
03:00:29,260 --> 03:00:30,500
it's

11
03:00:30,790 --> 03:00:31,520
comments.

12
03:00:31,530 --> 03:00:34,319
And I say it's in quotes because the value

13
03:00:34,330 --> 03:00:38,759
of story emerging is that we keep the discussion together

14
03:00:40,580 --> 03:00:42,759
if we have a section header.

15
03:00:42,770 --> 03:00:46,950
And so we said, rather than organizing all of the comments by score.

16
03:00:48,409 --> 03:00:49,130
So yeah,

17
03:00:50,650 --> 03:00:52,290
rather than organize

18
03:00:53,139 --> 03:00:55,720
top level comments by score,

19
03:00:57,029 --> 03:00:58,560
they'd be in there

20
03:00:59,069 --> 03:01:00,549
story sections

21
03:01:02,419 --> 03:01:03,099
and

22
03:01:05,110 --> 03:01:11,209
possibility of continuing to vote on individual stories

23
03:01:16,339 --> 03:01:17,129
to sort

24
03:01:19,959 --> 03:01:20,940
comments.

25
03:01:23,650 --> 03:01:27,230
So this would be a pretty big change to the way merged stories get displayed,

26
03:01:29,760 --> 03:01:31,510
but it would make it clear

27
03:01:33,110 --> 03:01:35,220
that they're responding to different

28
03:01:37,889 --> 03:01:38,870
aspects

29
03:01:39,069 --> 03:01:41,389
to different stories under that headline.

30
03:01:41,400 --> 03:01:43,730
If we went with headline as the top level title,

31
03:01:48,260 --> 03:01:50,949
it kind of rolls in a whole bunch of things

32
03:01:51,319 --> 03:01:52,480
and it makes

33
03:01:53,830 --> 03:01:59,160
the line between stories and comments a little permeable

34
03:02:10,089 --> 03:02:10,100
a

35
03:02:10,288 --> 03:02:12,809
while ago. So I've been thinking about this for

36
03:02:14,369 --> 03:02:15,070
Oh man

37
03:02:15,309 --> 03:02:16,630
a while. Uh

38
03:02:17,149 --> 03:02:18,740
Right. So that's the draft

39
03:02:20,440 --> 03:02:24,130
and then this is also there. So if I go to um

40
03:02:25,330 --> 03:02:26,110
Tig

41
03:02:26,270 --> 03:02:27,750
app models link,

42
03:02:30,630 --> 03:02:33,649
I thought about this for a while. But I created this link model

43
03:02:34,580 --> 03:02:34,970
in

44
03:02:36,080 --> 03:02:37,059
July.

45
03:02:37,559 --> 03:02:39,820
Oh, it's been kicking around in my head for at least a year.

46
03:02:43,539 --> 03:02:46,580
And the idea of the link model is

47
03:02:48,369 --> 03:02:49,580
it reads

48
03:02:50,880 --> 03:02:57,690
story texts and it reads comment bodies and it finds all internal and external

49
03:02:58,050 --> 03:02:58,889
links.

50
03:02:59,800 --> 03:03:02,190
And the idea for internal links,

51
03:03:02,589 --> 03:03:05,610
it figures out the the foreign key relationship.

52
03:03:06,630 --> 03:03:08,699
There's a fucking mosquito.

53
03:03:11,009 --> 03:03:12,210
I don't know if I got

54
03:03:13,029 --> 03:03:13,050
it.

55
03:03:15,139 --> 03:03:15,960
Excuse me,

56
03:03:17,440 --> 03:03:20,660
as if I don't have enough software bugs, I have actual bugs.

57
03:03:24,050 --> 03:03:24,710
So

58
03:03:27,059 --> 03:03:28,000
there it is

59
03:03:42,270 --> 03:03:43,550
this link model,

60
03:03:44,600 --> 03:03:46,830
I want to use it to

61
03:03:46,949 --> 03:03:48,500
interlink, comment

62
03:03:49,500 --> 03:03:52,080
to interlink stories and comments a bit

63
03:03:52,619 --> 03:03:55,779
so that you might even see metadata on a comment.

64
03:03:56,639 --> 03:03:57,500
So if

65
03:03:58,679 --> 03:04:04,660
what are we up to Carol? If Carol leaves a comment in February about

66
03:04:04,970 --> 03:04:05,720
mock

67
03:04:06,740 --> 03:04:07,570
and then

68
03:04:08,059 --> 03:04:09,320
in July,

69
03:04:10,240 --> 03:04:11,940
Dave writes a comment

70
03:04:12,720 --> 03:04:14,970
and happens to link to Carol's.

71
03:04:16,029 --> 03:04:19,119
It would be nice if looking at Carol's comment

72
03:04:21,618 --> 03:04:25,428
showed you that there was a later response in another story

73
03:04:25,808 --> 03:04:26,598
from Dave

74
03:04:27,260 --> 03:04:28,019
or

75
03:04:28,529 --> 03:04:30,600
not necessarily a response, a reference.

76
03:04:31,500 --> 03:04:33,760
And so that would be nice for internal links.

77
03:04:33,769 --> 03:04:36,589
And I'm slowly working towards that functionality.

78
03:04:38,980 --> 03:04:40,799
But the other part of it is

79
03:04:42,450 --> 03:04:43,649
it pulls out

80
03:04:43,760 --> 03:04:45,910
external links as well.

81
03:04:46,549 --> 03:04:49,750
So if a comment links off to

82
03:04:51,720 --> 03:04:54,929
uh actually let's just go right back to our working example.

83
03:04:58,309 --> 03:05:02,730
This comment has an associated link record in the database,

84
03:05:02,739 --> 03:05:04,929
we don't do anything with it yet, but it's there

85
03:05:06,160 --> 03:05:07,700
that links to this

86
03:05:10,230 --> 03:05:13,649
and I think there's a, there might be,

87
03:05:13,850 --> 03:05:15,480
since this story was submitted,

88
03:05:17,839 --> 03:05:23,540
I might have tweaked the story submission form to look for those and say, hey,

89
03:05:23,959 --> 03:05:25,220
actually, yeah, I did,

90
03:05:26,140 --> 03:05:27,250
I did, didn't I,

91
03:05:28,130 --> 03:05:29,660
where is it? Um

92
03:05:34,220 --> 03:05:34,760
Yeah,

93
03:05:35,390 --> 03:05:39,029
so when checking to see if someone is submitting a duplicate URL,

94
03:05:40,049 --> 03:05:41,799
I checked to see if they're,

95
03:05:41,880 --> 03:05:46,540
they are um linking to something that was recently in the comments

96
03:05:47,040 --> 03:05:47,809
and

97
03:05:48,230 --> 03:05:49,589
you

98
03:05:49,790 --> 03:05:50,059
what

99
03:05:51,190 --> 03:05:51,309
war

100
03:05:51,470 --> 03:05:51,489
per

101
03:05:54,839 --> 03:05:57,540
and then they get this message that says, hey,

102
03:05:58,160 --> 03:05:59,299
this comment

103
03:06:00,959 --> 03:06:05,100
just time ago in words, which might be 10 minutes or two days.

104
03:06:07,380 --> 03:06:09,279
Also linked to this story,

105
03:06:09,970 --> 03:06:13,489
please grow the existing discussion rather than splitting up the discussion.

106
03:06:13,529 --> 03:06:16,950
Adding a comment will bump it to the top of the active stories because

107
03:06:16,959 --> 03:06:20,119
I wanted people to see you're going to get the exposure you want.

108
03:06:20,309 --> 03:06:21,179
If you re respond,

109
03:06:21,519 --> 03:06:22,709
if you reply

110
03:06:22,950 --> 03:06:24,839
to the link that has already been submitted,

111
03:06:24,850 --> 03:06:27,679
instead of trying to use a story as a super reply.

112
03:06:28,510 --> 03:06:31,010
And this one has been a minute, right?

113
03:06:31,750 --> 03:06:32,329
So

114
03:06:33,899 --> 03:06:35,220
to blame

115
03:06:35,410 --> 03:06:38,750
analog app views stories

116
03:06:39,130 --> 03:06:40,600
form errors.

117
03:06:42,420 --> 03:06:44,149
So this one has been there

118
03:06:45,549 --> 03:06:46,399
two months

119
03:06:48,399 --> 03:06:49,450
and so

120
03:06:50,000 --> 03:06:51,450
let's jump over to live.

121
03:06:52,619 --> 03:06:55,130
It's a good time to check in to see if

122
03:06:56,820 --> 03:06:58,809
there have been fewer

123
03:06:59,049 --> 03:07:00,209
merges

124
03:07:01,119 --> 03:07:02,640
in the last two months because of it.

125
03:07:16,380 --> 03:07:17,220
I need a kill.

126
03:07:28,790 --> 03:07:31,040
The numbers might be low enough that there's nothing

127
03:07:31,660 --> 03:07:32,769
clear here,

128
03:07:33,709 --> 03:07:34,130
but

129
03:07:36,390 --> 03:07:36,929
we'll see.

130
03:07:52,510 --> 03:07:56,549
So over the weeks of the year. Here's how many we have?

131
03:07:58,260 --> 03:08:00,709
124, 14

132
03:08:01,679 --> 03:08:07,079
and then what it was eight weeks ago. 12345678.

133
03:08:08,390 --> 03:08:11,070
I don't see a strong pattern popping out at me.

134
03:08:11,149 --> 03:08:14,170
The numbers on either side of the date look pretty samey.

135
03:08:23,950 --> 03:08:26,799
Yeah, the numbers are small enough. It's not worth trying to, uh,

136
03:08:27,940 --> 03:08:30,140
work towards any kind of epistemic rigor,

137
03:08:30,279 --> 03:08:32,500
but it's the kind of small

138
03:08:32,770 --> 03:08:34,190
nudge change

139
03:08:36,268 --> 03:08:38,087
that I hope has an effect like that.

140
03:08:44,270 --> 03:08:44,729
All right.

141
03:08:46,200 --> 03:08:47,570
So Jay Mivan,

142
03:08:51,859 --> 03:08:53,039
you said

143
03:08:53,359 --> 03:08:54,880
over here in the scratch

144
03:08:55,840 --> 03:08:57,919
seems like it nips that in the bud it does.

145
03:08:59,750 --> 03:09:01,409
Oh Were there missing rows at the end?

146
03:09:05,590 --> 03:09:06,330
Wait a minute.

147
03:09:13,859 --> 03:09:15,039
Oh, you're right.

148
03:09:15,679 --> 03:09:17,799
I missed it. There's no 44.

149
03:09:21,229 --> 03:09:22,760
Well, maybe it did work then

150
03:09:23,969 --> 03:09:25,340
49 there's only one

151
03:09:27,150 --> 03:09:31,039
like some of this is gonna be really influenced by if something spicy happened.

152
03:09:31,500 --> 03:09:31,960
But

153
03:09:33,219 --> 03:09:38,080
you're right. These are contiguous and there is a gap here. So we had a zero

154
03:09:45,000 --> 03:09:46,780
uh oh and 48 is missing.

155
03:09:47,630 --> 03:09:48,289
OK.

156
03:09:48,929 --> 03:09:49,570
That's,

157
03:09:49,890 --> 03:09:51,929
that's enough that I'm gonna tip it over to say,

158
03:09:52,570 --> 03:09:57,809
yeah, it did improve the situation. I am doing fewer merges since adding that,

159
03:09:58,789 --> 03:09:59,330
you know,

160
03:09:59,400 --> 03:10:02,150
I'm not gonna try and pretend that there's enough data

161
03:10:02,159 --> 03:10:04,330
here to have any kind of rigor on it.

162
03:10:06,130 --> 03:10:09,650
But as you know, like a stick your finger in the wind kind of thing.

163
03:10:09,659 --> 03:10:10,609
Yeah, it helped a little.

164
03:10:11,869 --> 03:10:13,809
That's great. Thank you for catching that. A Rh

165
03:10:18,289 --> 03:10:18,869
So

166
03:10:23,679 --> 03:10:26,859
Jay Mivan, you pointed out that this week also seems common.

167
03:10:26,989 --> 03:10:29,619
It shows up a bunch in descriptions

168
03:10:30,489 --> 03:10:31,549
because

169
03:10:34,419 --> 03:10:37,799
I'm trying to explain what the behavior is

170
03:10:38,580 --> 03:10:40,719
merged into other intro from this week,

171
03:10:44,559 --> 03:10:47,020
merging this week's rust async stories,

172
03:10:48,190 --> 03:10:49,940
this week's terraform story.

173
03:10:51,000 --> 03:10:51,770
So

174
03:10:53,900 --> 03:10:56,200
some of what's happening is

175
03:10:57,510 --> 03:11:01,989
I am trying to explain people to people what the merging rules are.

176
03:11:02,679 --> 03:11:04,020
And when I say

177
03:11:06,940 --> 03:11:09,760
this week, at least people can figure out, oh,

178
03:11:09,770 --> 03:11:12,940
I should expect that stories will get merged in the span of a week.

179
03:11:13,400 --> 03:11:16,500
And when I reiterate what that rule is,

180
03:11:16,650 --> 03:11:18,359
those individuals

181
03:11:18,520 --> 03:11:23,619
who submitted the merge story are a little less likely to do it again, not

182
03:11:24,000 --> 03:11:26,719
100% likely, but fairly less.

183
03:11:27,590 --> 03:11:32,690
And then also people can see it in the mod log and go oh It's a this week kind of thing.

184
03:11:35,599 --> 03:11:37,380
Some of these are

185
03:11:45,799 --> 03:11:50,890
a big news story happens that carries on for weeks and the uh

186
03:11:51,799 --> 03:11:53,690
because I merged stories

187
03:11:53,979 --> 03:11:56,979
that are submitted within a week of the original.

188
03:11:57,429 --> 03:12:00,169
Well, eight days later, it's time for a new thread.

189
03:12:00,179 --> 03:12:03,450
And so that's why you see the this week's story a bunch

190
03:12:10,859 --> 03:12:12,799
and I wrote Pin in this.

191
03:12:20,030 --> 03:12:21,479
What do we call them here? Like

192
03:12:21,820 --> 03:12:25,229
merged candidates submitted are

193
03:12:26,909 --> 03:12:28,799
within a week of

194
03:12:29,030 --> 03:12:29,960
original

195
03:12:31,059 --> 03:12:32,020
get merged

196
03:12:34,770 --> 03:12:36,190
after a week.

197
03:12:37,809 --> 03:12:39,489
Why am I doing the arrow thing here

198
03:12:40,809 --> 03:12:42,309
after a week?

199
03:12:44,000 --> 03:12:45,000
The first

200
03:12:45,619 --> 03:12:46,419
next

201
03:12:46,539 --> 03:12:48,219
story is

202
03:12:49,479 --> 03:12:51,409
the target for future

203
03:12:52,190 --> 03:12:52,780
merges.

204
03:12:57,349 --> 03:12:58,169
This is

205
03:12:59,789 --> 03:13:01,369
mostly good.

206
03:13:01,690 --> 03:13:04,650
So like there is a limit to how often we're

207
03:13:04,659 --> 03:13:07,760
gonna merge stories and we don't wanna merge forever.

208
03:13:07,770 --> 03:13:09,090
And there's kind of

209
03:13:09,219 --> 03:13:09,229
a

210
03:13:11,770 --> 03:13:13,390
kind of a balance.

211
03:13:13,659 --> 03:13:18,200
Yeah. Well, not kind of, there is a balance happening here between

212
03:13:19,650 --> 03:13:22,030
keeping discussions together

213
03:13:22,400 --> 03:13:23,429
and exposure

214
03:13:27,010 --> 03:13:29,020
a hassle though is

215
03:13:35,159 --> 03:13:38,780
site traffic is strongly cyclical.

216
03:13:40,729 --> 03:13:43,669
We've seen it in a few quarries on the stream here where

217
03:13:43,679 --> 03:13:47,140
Monday is the busiest and then Tuesday is almost as busy.

218
03:13:47,150 --> 03:13:50,750
You know, Wednesday falls off. Thursday falls off Friday, falls off

219
03:13:51,260 --> 03:13:53,700
and then Saturday, Sunday are

220
03:13:54,940 --> 03:13:56,440
what 20%

221
03:13:56,700 --> 03:13:57,559
of Monday.

222
03:13:57,739 --> 03:13:58,520
So, you know,

223
03:13:59,020 --> 03:13:59,799
it's like

224
03:14:01,049 --> 03:14:05,820
a gentle slope and then clunk down to Saturday, Sunday and jump back up for Monday.

225
03:14:08,200 --> 03:14:08,729
This is,

226
03:14:09,679 --> 03:14:14,090
this is every site, by the way, almost everybody looks like this unless you know,

227
03:14:14,679 --> 03:14:16,580
you have a Taco Tuesday restaurant,

228
03:14:17,890 --> 03:14:19,030
everybody looks like this.

229
03:14:23,119 --> 03:14:27,599
So when a real interesting story is submitted on a Thursday,

230
03:14:28,520 --> 03:14:32,830
it gets about a day and a half of strong discussion and then a little over the weekend

231
03:14:34,099 --> 03:14:35,440
and then Monday,

232
03:14:36,809 --> 03:14:38,169
Monday is a new

233
03:14:38,320 --> 03:14:39,190
week

234
03:14:39,760 --> 03:14:42,549
with a lot more traffic than Thursday had.

235
03:14:42,799 --> 03:14:46,330
And so the Monday submitter may not even be aware of the

236
03:14:46,340 --> 03:14:50,429
Thursday story because it's certainly fallen off the home page by then.

237
03:14:51,690 --> 03:14:54,929
It may even have fallen off s slash active by

238
03:14:54,940 --> 03:14:57,710
then because the week is so weekend is so quiet

239
03:15:17,710 --> 03:15:18,520
Thursday.

240
03:15:33,250 --> 03:15:34,030
So

241
03:15:34,320 --> 03:15:35,659
this is also

242
03:15:39,059 --> 03:15:40,070
a little

243
03:15:41,450 --> 03:15:43,830
hard for mods to keep track of.

244
03:15:45,599 --> 03:15:49,130
So story merging only happens in 1% of the time,

245
03:15:49,500 --> 03:15:52,250
maybe less now that I put in that link model.

246
03:15:55,109 --> 03:15:58,690
But I have a mental list of stories I've seen in the last week

247
03:16:01,890 --> 03:16:06,590
and especially when it's something like Thursday to next Wednesday,

248
03:16:06,679 --> 03:16:09,539
people seem especially surprised by the merge.

249
03:16:12,710 --> 03:16:13,869
So maybe

250
03:16:14,090 --> 03:16:15,690
story merging

251
03:16:16,960 --> 03:16:17,799
week

252
03:16:18,020 --> 03:16:21,020
should be a calendar week.

253
03:16:27,929 --> 03:16:30,219
It's something I've been kind of kicking around in my head

254
03:16:30,349 --> 03:16:32,309
and especially riding a doc,

255
03:16:35,030 --> 03:16:35,039
a

256
03:16:35,200 --> 03:16:36,919
big part of

257
03:16:37,190 --> 03:16:42,530
rules is they have to be predictable. Someone has to be able to look at

258
03:16:43,500 --> 03:16:47,320
an action they're considering and run the rules in their head

259
03:16:47,849 --> 03:16:50,039
and say, am I about to break a rule

260
03:16:51,109 --> 03:16:55,840
and hopefully they do that and hopefully for them, the incentive is follow the rule,

261
03:16:55,849 --> 03:16:57,809
not get a thrill out of breaking the rule.

262
03:17:00,750 --> 03:17:03,760
But it is really hard for anybody who doesn't

263
03:17:03,859 --> 03:17:08,520
really closely read the site like a moderator or a

264
03:17:08,839 --> 03:17:10,348
major power user

265
03:17:11,140 --> 03:17:11,790
that

266
03:17:15,660 --> 03:17:17,459
they won't know

267
03:17:17,810 --> 03:17:20,790
234 days later,

268
03:17:22,520 --> 03:17:25,858
especially if there's the weekend in the middle. I mean,

269
03:17:29,459 --> 03:17:33,689
part of my goal for the week is weekend is to not think too hard about

270
03:17:34,130 --> 03:17:35,199
the work day, right?

271
03:17:36,630 --> 03:17:38,130
And kinda reset,

272
03:17:38,510 --> 03:17:39,410
refresh,

273
03:17:39,699 --> 03:17:40,819
come back clean.

274
03:17:48,489 --> 03:17:50,430
Uh not a lot easier, but it is

275
03:17:50,680 --> 03:17:54,189
easier to explain, more likely to be seen,

276
03:17:54,430 --> 03:17:56,109
builds on natural

277
03:17:57,319 --> 03:17:57,859
rhythm.

278
03:18:00,010 --> 03:18:01,469
So this would be a change,

279
03:18:02,550 --> 03:18:06,839
but it's one of those places uh like that book Badass by Cathy Sa

280
03:18:07,060 --> 03:18:09,089
that I keep referencing where

281
03:18:09,910 --> 03:18:12,750
if you can't understand what's happening,

282
03:18:14,189 --> 03:18:15,540
people can't

283
03:18:17,800 --> 03:18:20,479
understand it and feel competent and

284
03:18:20,719 --> 03:18:24,890
follow the best practice and do the good thing and be their best self.

285
03:18:28,130 --> 03:18:28,699
So

286
03:18:31,750 --> 03:18:34,969
that's about the end of the topics that I had to talk about.

287
03:18:36,410 --> 03:18:38,670
This has been lobster's office hours.

288
03:18:38,979 --> 03:18:41,589
If you have questions about this,

289
03:18:43,540 --> 03:18:44,770
feel free to pipe up.

290
03:18:46,000 --> 03:18:47,180
And when I say this, I mean,

291
03:18:47,189 --> 03:18:50,030
either the story merging stuff we've done or anything else on

292
03:18:50,040 --> 03:18:52,099
the site because I'm coming here to the end of the stream

293
03:18:53,209 --> 03:18:56,219
and I will take this spreadsheet

294
03:18:57,589 --> 03:18:59,250
and I will

295
03:18:59,630 --> 03:19:02,489
attach it to the stream archive page.

296
03:19:02,949 --> 03:19:04,329
So this is the

297
03:19:05,260 --> 03:19:08,859
20 24-12 dash nine stream.

298
03:19:10,400 --> 03:19:10,939
And

299
03:19:11,969 --> 03:19:17,030
I will tie in this TSV file if you want to download it and play around with it.

300
03:19:17,040 --> 03:19:21,260
You're very welcome to because I want the site to be able to understand itself.

301
03:19:23,819 --> 03:19:27,000
And if you wanna look at this and figure out,

302
03:19:27,729 --> 03:19:27,750
oh,

303
03:19:27,760 --> 03:19:30,589
maybe we do want to go through the other 350

304
03:19:30,599 --> 03:19:33,339
you can pipe up and tell me that very explicitly.

305
03:19:34,040 --> 03:19:35,810
Otherwise I think

306
03:19:36,060 --> 03:19:39,920
I've categorized enough to feel like we've seen all of stuff.

307
03:19:41,020 --> 03:19:41,780
Weird. Why did

308
03:19:42,199 --> 03:19:44,319
so this one is obviously response. What's going up?

309
03:19:45,140 --> 03:19:45,520
All right,

310
03:19:48,390 --> 03:19:49,910
there must have been a case against

311
03:19:50,180 --> 03:19:50,619
op

312
03:19:50,910 --> 03:19:52,400
and then it got these two responses.

313
03:19:53,280 --> 03:19:56,989
It is so hard not to rabbit hole looking at this stuff because it's like, oh,

314
03:19:57,449 --> 03:19:59,390
it's a whole list of things I'm interested in.

315
03:20:00,030 --> 03:20:03,180
I'm just scrolling past 700 things that are all pretty neat.

316
03:20:07,760 --> 03:20:09,430
Github has sold us out.

317
03:20:10,270 --> 03:20:10,780
Ok.

318
03:20:12,130 --> 03:20:15,310
Speaking of hot takes, sometimes you can spot them from the title.

319
03:20:20,390 --> 03:20:23,069
All right. Well, thanks very much for hanging out.

320
03:20:24,260 --> 03:20:24,920
Uh

321
03:20:25,550 --> 03:20:25,979
Folks.

322
03:20:25,989 --> 03:20:29,400
I really appreciate that some of you were helping

323
03:20:29,410 --> 03:20:32,079
read over my shoulder and helping categorize them.

324
03:20:32,089 --> 03:20:33,160
You all asked. Uh

325
03:20:34,810 --> 03:20:35,640
Either you caught

326
03:20:35,949 --> 03:20:39,780
useful errors and distinctions or you asked really good questions that get

327
03:20:39,920 --> 03:20:39,949
at

328
03:20:40,640 --> 03:20:41,819
what's going on here.

329
03:20:44,199 --> 03:20:47,800
And then hopefully we can on the next stream,

330
03:20:48,160 --> 03:20:50,380
take all of this stuff that

331
03:20:51,430 --> 03:20:53,119
we figured out from

332
03:20:54,180 --> 03:20:59,040
the site's history and me getting forced to brain dump, what I am

333
03:20:59,170 --> 03:21:03,099
actually doing from the gut and put it into words

334
03:21:03,630 --> 03:21:05,579
and we can write up something that is

335
03:21:05,920 --> 03:21:08,430
much more helpful and much clearer

336
03:21:09,150 --> 03:21:10,689
and much easier to follow.

337
03:21:12,119 --> 03:21:16,829
And once that's written up, maybe that becomes a, all right.

338
03:21:16,839 --> 03:21:18,579
Well, we could improve the U I,

339
03:21:19,479 --> 03:21:21,250
we can improve the practice

340
03:21:24,349 --> 03:21:25,270
and uh

341
03:21:25,579 --> 03:21:26,780
very hopefully

342
03:21:27,750 --> 03:21:30,890
we could do that. Uh oh, I didn't paste it in here. But the uh

343
03:21:31,709 --> 03:21:34,780
the stories controller thing that we keep coming back to,

344
03:21:35,750 --> 03:21:38,869
like I had been kicking around that around in my head, but since I wrote up the github

345
03:21:39,040 --> 03:21:40,060
issue for it,

346
03:21:40,410 --> 03:21:44,660
I just keep seeing things like the moderator, editing their own story.

347
03:21:44,670 --> 03:21:48,219
That's like, oh yeah. Well, if we cleaned up the controller that wouldn't happen.

348
03:21:50,699 --> 03:21:51,189
All right.

349
03:21:53,729 --> 03:21:55,219
Well, given no

350
03:21:55,390 --> 03:21:57,609
questions. I'm gonna roll out.

351
03:21:59,369 --> 03:22:02,699
Thank you all very much for tuning in and I will see

352
03:22:02,709 --> 03:22:07,140
you Thursday morning for our next regularly scheduled lobster's office hours.

353
03:22:07,150 --> 03:22:08,660
But feel free to

354
03:22:09,209 --> 03:22:15,219
message me on the site or email me or grab me on Irc or whatever is handy.

355
03:22:16,479 --> 03:22:18,170
Talk to you later, take care.