Comments on: Finding Value in Bogosity http://push.cx/2008/finding-value-in-bogosity A traveling geek's blog on development, games, and the web Tue, 17 Jan 2012 16:49:00 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Peter Harkins http://push.cx/2008/finding-value-in-bogosity/comment-page-1#comment-87895 Peter Harkins Thu, 08 May 2008 02:02:53 +0000 http://push.cx/?p=316#comment-87895 You make a good point that they're of unproven value. I guess they just tickled me in the right places and I think they could be useful -- or at least fun to try. You make a good point that they’re of unproven value. I guess they just tickled me in the right places and I think they could be useful — or at least fun to try.

]]> By: Patrick Dubroy http://push.cx/2008/finding-value-in-bogosity/comment-page-1#comment-87894 Patrick Dubroy Wed, 07 May 2008 21:44:33 +0000 http://push.cx/?p=316#comment-87894 Peter, you're right that with programming patterns and style, we don't know for sure what is good. But you still shouldn't do exercises like this unless you at least believe there is a good reason for it. I can think of many different kinds of arbitrary constraints that you could adopt, but nobody would suggest an exercise like "start all of your methods with the letter R" or "keep all lines shorter than 10 characters" because there is no obvious value in those constraints. For the 9 constraints that Bay suggested, although he might not advocate following them to a T, he is still implying that they will lead to better code in some way. Peter, you’re right that with programming patterns and style, we don’t know for sure what is good. But you still shouldn’t do exercises like this unless you at least believe there is a good reason for it.

I can think of many different kinds of arbitrary constraints that you could adopt, but nobody would suggest an exercise like “start all of your methods with the letter R” or “keep all lines shorter than 10 characters” because there is no obvious value in those constraints. For the 9 constraints that Bay suggested, although he might not advocate following them to a T, he is still implying that they will lead to better code in some way.

]]> By: Peter Harkins http://push.cx/2008/finding-value-in-bogosity/comment-page-1#comment-87893 Peter Harkins Wed, 07 May 2008 20:55:49 +0000 http://push.cx/?p=316#comment-87893 I disagree because programming is an abstract mental activity, so it's easy to fall into the same patterns of thought and design. The constraints are designed to make you uncomfortable, to force you to think differently and try new things. You're right that swimmers don't need that, they're trying to perfect form. I haven't yet seen a programming form worth perfecting (if it even has such a concept). I also haven't seen programming exercises known to improve performance -- even tracking programmer performance is a known problem. I disagree because programming is an abstract mental activity, so it’s easy to fall into the same patterns of thought and design. The constraints are designed to make you uncomfortable, to force you to think differently and try new things. You’re right that swimmers don’t need that, they’re trying to perfect form. I haven’t yet seen a programming form worth perfecting (if it even has such a concept). I also haven’t seen programming exercises known to improve performance — even tracking programmer performance is a known problem.

]]> By: Patrick Dubroy http://push.cx/2008/finding-value-in-bogosity/comment-page-1#comment-87892 Patrick Dubroy Wed, 07 May 2008 17:17:32 +0000 http://push.cx/?p=316#comment-87892 I understand that these are supposed to be *exercises*, and not guidelines for writing production code. But an exercise should only be done if it is known to improve performance in some way. Your analogy of "learning to swim with one hand behind your back" is a good one, and that's exactly the problem I had with this article. I don't think a swimmer would ever train with one hand behind their back, because it would ruin their form, and ultimately there are much better and efficient ways to perform strength training. I think the same is true of these constraints. I understand that these are supposed to be *exercises*, and not guidelines for writing production code. But an exercise should only be done if it is known to improve performance in some way.

Your analogy of “learning to swim with one hand behind your back” is a good one, and that’s exactly the problem I had with this article. I don’t think a swimmer would ever train with one hand behind their back, because it would ruin their form, and ultimately there are much better and efficient ways to perform strength training. I think the same is true of these constraints.

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